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Gardening resources and tips, etc.

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby ZeroCook » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:29 pm

Suffs wrote: As for plants/seeds … following cross-pollination the resulting seed will carry the genes of both parents …. but the fruit containing the seed only has the genes of the plant it is growing on.

Does that make sense?

Totally makes sense. I thought that would be the case. I actually called the growers - who are selling/marketing heirloom squash and pumpkins as edible for the seasonal/Halloween market to ask about it. Not much of a response as that market has always been geared towards the decorative rather than edible. My guess is poor/crossed seed. I looked at their website - they must grow all sorts close to each other and sell the ones that look ok for the type. They probably shouldn't be marketing their pumpkins as edible as cucurbacitin which is bitter can be pretty toxic in large quantities when people decide to override the initial distaste and eat bitter fruit.

What I don't understand is bitter (as opposed to simply tasteless) c.maxima, which, other than a pretty rare S. American variety, have no bitter varieties.. They grow gourds too which are c. pepo and normally won't cross with c.maxima but I have read that very rarely cucurbita species can cross - perhaps if you grow enough plants that may eventually happen.

I grew squash this year and only one variety each of two species, one of which was an heirloom c. pepo which I also grew for seed. No one in the village or surrounding area grew anything this year because of the severe drought which only ended in July, so no stray pollen until later in August/September when some odd volunteer cucurbitas started flowering.

Will keep an eye out for white fly etc on the chili.

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby scullion » Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:13 pm

if i were a commercial grower, understanding how promiscuous curcurbits are, any i grew for seed would be grown well away from any other and selected flowers (both female and male) bagged before opening.
as the foraging area of a bee has over a four mile radius you can't be sure that you'll have a true bred seed - unless you've bagged the flowers and checked that bees haven't bitten their way through the flower early.
(they'd be mad to open pollinate them).
i wouldn't bother with the seed you've saved - unless you can be 100% sure that no-one in that rather large area has grown any curcurbits.
if they've been grown for the halloween market they may not have been that careful with pollination.
suffs' genetic explanation is correct.

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby ZeroCook » Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:24 am

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Not sure if the decor veg growers also grow them for seed, Scullion. Just a guess but could also be the people they in turn source them from.

As for my heirloom c.pepos - Gem Squash - I now realise that they may very well have crossed, funnily enough, perhaps more likely from volunteer plants than other. I still have a lot of bought grower seed, even though the fertility rate has diminished. I'll try them again next year and bag for seed - never done that & will find out what sort of bags to use.

The saved maxima seeds were from something that looked like Crown Prince/Sweet Meat but don't know. The crop results were somewhat mixed but actually surprisingly pretty similar to one another in shape and also in texture/flavour, which was excellent and which is why I saved the seed before I read up on mentioned promiscuity of curcubits.

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby Suffs » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:30 am

I get most of my seeds from Chilterns, but these folk are also highly recommended on the Gardeners World forum, especially for squashes.
https://www.realseeds.co.uk/wintersquash.html

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby herbidacious » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:41 am

Badger's Mate wrote:Broad beans are pretty forgiving. They might get a bit leggy if you sow them indoors now, but you could take a chance on planting them out when they're big enough and they might well be nice and early. I won't sow them directly in the ground as they tend to be mouse food here, but usually put them in modules early in the New Year.

It's always worth sowing old seed early in a propagator to try and get an early crop, but don't wait too long in case they're not viable. I need to go through my seeds now, there are quite a few odds and sods that might be a bit iffy; old packets, seed swap stuff, self-saved ones.


I have sown the sweet peas in an unheated lean to down the side of the house. It's not warm in there... unless it's very sunny.... I wanted to avoid the mouse issue. The plan is to put them in the greenhouse as soon as they germinate. (It's now a week and no sign but I think 10-14 days is normal?)
I was going to sow early peas and broad beans in the same deep root trainer frame together, but I think I will do them in separate ones as the germination times might be different. This way I can sow the broad beans in the greenhouse if I want to.
My greenhouse has been getting down to 1 degree some nights...

I am going to attempt overwintering chillies too. Not sure where to overwinter them though. I thought the aforementioned unheated lean to. I know they need to be frost free and not too warm, but not sure what temperature is required.

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby Badger's Mate » Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:51 pm

I think you can wait a bit longer for the sweet peas. Good idea to sow them separately. I use those 7 x 7 square plug propagators in the Spring for little seeds and it's important with those to sow very similar things - all brassicas, say, otherwise there is the problem that some will be too big before others have emerged.

I'm not sure how warm chillies have to be overwinter. Frost free for sure, but tender plants can get a chilling injury at low temperatures. The RHS suggest a minimum of 12°C in the summer but that's probably a different matter.

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby scullion » Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:41 pm

i've overwintered chillis on a west facing kitchen (unheated) windowsill that can go down to under 10°c, and in a poly tunnel. chopping them back quite a bit and keeping them reasonably dry is important. i would suggest keeping them above 5°c.
i have some still out in the garden that need to be brought in...

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby herbidacious » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:54 pm

10C is quite high... :? It will go much lower than that in my lean to. Probably down to 4.

But alas it's really that or the house. I suppose I could put fleece on them.

I sowed broad beans. I ordered another root trainer for the peas. I will end up with too many plants for my tiny plot, but I think at least one of the pea varieties is small enough to go in pots. I have not done well with peas in the last two years, and want to try to do them well next year, but not, perhaps, at the expense of French beans. I might skip sweetcorn, which will give me more room.

I harvested a couple of rather small beetroot at lunch time. I bought the plants very late in a sale and am not sure if they will grow much more. (Not grown them really before. Need to do some research.) Anyway they were delicious. I am wondering why i haven't made a concerted attempt at growing them before.

I really need more space... I am still no. 52 (of 55) on the allotment waiting list. I asked to be put on it over a year ago. I doubt I will get a plot before I become to decrepit to use it.

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby Sloe-Gin » Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:44 pm

All 4 heated trays are on from dark till sunset, with their covers in situ. I have bubblewrap in reserve.
I kept a chilli plant once by the patio window. A dog chomped it.
The potatoes for Christmas are like marbles. I shall keep them growing on next year. But in August, I didn't know we faced major surgery, so potatoes are, well, small potatoes. :lol:

Garlic is coming on strongly, cuttings seem to be surviving and strawberry maidens doing well.

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby ZeroCook » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:29 am

.
Interesting link Suffs.

My chilies are overwintering on an east facing window sill with the blinds pulled up for them during the day, and moved away very nearby at night when the blinds are closed.

Usually best to sow next year's summer plants indoors after beginning of Feb when days begin to get longer - nothing to be gained planting earlier and they may not like being forced to come up in winter with very short days.

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby scullion » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:32 pm

my son sows his chillies in the middle of december (with light and heat) - he grows some amazing plants.

herbidacious wrote:I am still no. 52 (of 55) on the allotment waiting list. I asked to be put on it over a year ago. I doubt I will get a plot before I become to decrepit to use it.

it may go quicker than you think, there will be people who give theirs up when they find they have less time with the ending of working from home etc and if their attention wanes or they get too old to cope (and have no family help).
i went from 7th to getting one this month in three years. although this isn't a very good indicator as there is a sort of queue jump for people to accept a plot on another, less convenient lot, in the parish, and transfer in to this one in front of people on the list (i didn't go down that route - didn't seem right). keep emailing to see where you are on the list - they may get fed up and allot one to you early!

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby herbidacious » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:46 am

I am not entirely sure if I can manage one on my own either. But it would be worth a go. After posting that, I looked at other nearish ones and they and all had stopped taking requests to go on their waiting lists, because so many people had asked. The nearest one is literally at the bottom of the road - a 2 minute walk a way. It's quite a covetted one. They seem to do lots of social things (not my bad, but....) and have a kind of open day/fete twice a year (normally), with plant sales, bric a brac, food and entertainment. We usually go.

If it took you 3 years to jump 7 places, and mine goes at the same rate I will be 61! They don't respond to emails. I have asked several times. They publish the waiting list on their web site using initials, so I can't even be absolutely certain that 'RF' is me.

Peas were sown today. A few of the sweet peas sown last week are coming up now. They are in Hacknix root trainers (not the most environmentally great option I now realize. They are not robust and I am not sure how many times I will be able to resuse them, but maybe with the help of some very strong tape I will be able to a few times.) I suppose i could lift rows out to put those that have germinated in the greenhouse.

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby scullion » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:50 am

just to let you know that my outside chilies were fine today although the temperature had gone down to 4°c last night. they've been brought in now.

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby Badger's Mate » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:23 am

If it's any consolation, last year and this would almost certainly have seen high demand for allotments. This year a lot of the new tenants will have given up, plus as Scully mentioned, there will be the usual demographic changes of people moving away or becoming too old or frail to continue. The waiting list should go down more quickly. I know our site had big demand from mid 2020 and a lot of those are lying untended now. Another plus point here is that the Council split a lot of the plots into halves and a few into quarters, so it's possible to rent 5 or 2.5 poles (125 or 62.5 sq. metres). I rent 2 x 5 rather than 1 x 10; luckily they're next door to one another.

For further consolation, I've been using rootrainers for at least 10 years and haven't had to throw one away yet. :D

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby herbidacious » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:42 am

I have not moved up the list since I asked to be put on it about 18 months ago. As I said, places in this one are coveted anyway. It's a bit of a fancy pants one, but the aspect of it that is most important to me is its proximity, given I don't drive. I know that if I had to get a lift or walk a mile, I just wouldn't go as often as I should. Certainly not every day or every other day.

Anyway, I think just see how it goes. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. And if I am too decrepit to manage one when I am 61 (this is not implausible given the way I seem to be going!) I will just say 'no thanks'.

That must be a bit annoying that you have plots left untended, BM, if only from the point of view of weeds. Hopefully the tenants (?!) will face up to reality and release them soon. I suppose that's the problem. If you have waited ages to get one, you are not going to give up quickly unless you are prone to rigorous self honesty.

More sweet peas up today!

I think the latest root trainer set I bought is of poorer quality than the ones I am reusing from last year (and, I think the year before in one case). Some of the cells tore in the process of being gently put together, It doesn't really matter, as long as they are all in the frame. I wonder if silicone would be a better material. But perhaps it's not as durable in outdoor situations.
I have used biodegradable tubes, but they tend to go rather mouldy, probably because I have them next to each other. I need to devise a frame to put them in. Mind you they have metal staples which are not obviously biodegradable...

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby PatsyMFagan » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:54 am

herbidacious wrote:I really need more space... I am still no. 52 (of 55) on the allotment waiting list. I asked to be put on it over a year ago. I doubt I will get a plot before I become to decrepit to use it.


herbidacious wrote:I am not entirely sure if I can manage one on my own either. But it would be worth a go. .... The nearest one is literally at the bottom of the road - a 2 minute walk a way. It's quite a covetted one. They seem to do lots of social things (not my bad, but....) and have a kind of open day/fete twice a year (normally), with plant sales, bric a brac, food and entertainment. We usually go.


Most allotment sites that I know of offer half plots. So you could always post a notice at your local one asking if anyone wants to share. It wouldn't hurt to wander down there and get talking to some of the the other gardeners and let them know your preference ..

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby Badger's Mate » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:05 am

In the days before rootrainers I collected toilet roll tubes from w***, but although it was a few dozen, enough for sweetcorn, say, I didn't used to sow peas and beans like that previously.

I started on this site by helping a mate who had a second plot. There was a waiting list at the time. Demand fluctuates hugely and soon enough there were vacancies. I reapplied and got one. It was clear that the two either side of my new one were vacant too, so I asked if I could rent the one next door and did so a couple of months later. The other side has had a few tenants over the years, all keen initially but is thickly weeded at the mo. In this house there's always a debate about whether we need another 5 poles for strawberries, asparagus and a polytunnel, or a low-maintenance forest garden, but the Voice Of Reason inevitably prevails... :D

It seems that people see Monty & co on the telly, who keep a big garden going with seemingly an hour of work per week; some of that spent chatting to Rachel. This relaxing and idyllic vision is slightly in contrast with the jungle they inherit when their turn comes. The initial energy and enthusiasm is spent arduously clearing the ground. Having done that, they come back six weeks later to find it weedy again. I was that young enthusiast forty-odd years ago in Edmonton, got a warning letter and all, but the trick is to stick at it. :thumbsup

ETA

Sensible suggestion Pat. Our site is planning to put in some raised planters like big mangers for people who can't bend, or just want a little bit of room to try.

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby PatsyMFagan » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:15 am

Badger's Mate wrote: In this house there's always a debate about whether we need another 5 poles for strawberries, asparagus and a polytunnel, or a low-maintenance forest garden, but the Voice Of Reason inevitably prevails... :D


Thanks for that sentence BM, I knew allotments were measured in old lengths and been trying to drag that information from the bottom of my memory bank ;) :thumbsup

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby Badger's Mate » Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:01 pm

Yes, a pole is a quarter of a chain; a linear measure of 5½ yards. Also it's an area of 1 square pole; 30¼ square yards (near enough 25 square metres)

Thus a standard allotment is 302½ square yards; about 250 square metres.

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Re: Gardening resources and tips, etc.

Postby herbidacious » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:13 pm

Ha yes. I wonder how many people MD has helping him.

I work damned hard in spring and early summer. A part time job's worth some weeks. It will be hard to do quite as much if I have to do 3 days a week in the office next year. It's amazing how much you can get done after work if you can finish work and be home at 4 (and haven't had to do tiring commutes).

I think I could manage it. I also think I asked for a half plot. I'd continue to grow things that need watering every day at home, I think. Anyway not much point in thiking about the detail when I am not 52...

I used loo rolls the year before last but they smelt terrible, went very mouldy and sprouted mini mushrooms. None of this mattered (and clearly I was overwatering) but it put me off. One does wonder if chemicals go into loo rolls too. If my dad were still around (and fit enough) he'd be making me a bit clunky wooden frame to put grow tubes in :)

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