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Healthy Eating

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby Earthmaiden » Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:38 pm

When you think that ultra processed foods have been produced by a handful of well established companies for many, many years, have led the demand for unsustainable farming and allowed their fat cats to get very rich and influence politics hugely, it's going to take more than curtailing a few adverts to turn things round and have them worry about the planet and people's health. That said, children do watch adverts and are hugely influenced by the media, so anything that might help a little isn't to be sneezed at even though it's not the answer to the bigger picture. GD, aged 5, recently went into raptures and said she was thankful (yes, thankful!) when she saw the brand of toothpaste I was using because it was the best kind, a high percentage of dentists used it and it would keep my teeth free from this that and the other and I should go on using it. I'll bet we can all still sing a few childhood advertising jingles too - and I still sometimes wonder if Martini and Marlboro wouldn't lead me to a more glamorous grown up life ;).

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby Stokey Sue » Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:56 pm

That's the point
What is this "ultra processed food" of which you speak?
There is no accepted scientific definition of ultra processed food
The Nova definitions, which are the nearest there are to an accepted set of definitions, are tosh in my opinion (and of many others)

Without such a definition you cannot do scientifically valid studies that correlate the consumption of "ultra processed food" with anything at all

Nobody knows what upf is, but they are all against it! And there is a tremendous amount of snobbery involved

It may well turn out that it is possible to set criteria that identify categories undesirable foods but we aren't there yet as far as I can see

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby Badger's Mate » Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:22 am

We've been down this road here before, haven't we, but it has clearly got some traction, whether it be a belief in junk food or superfoods or whatever the latest fad is. What bothers me most is people with books to sell using their qualifications to sell them. It's bad enough that they make them up or pretend they're more relevant than is the case. It seems worse to me when genuinely qualified individuals peddle this stuff.

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby jeral » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:55 pm

On nutrition absorption, the pitch is also queered by foods which help or conflict with each other's goodness if eaten together.

I'd hazard a guess than junk foods could be described as those with more fillers, being empty calories, than the good stuff alongside excessive fat, salt and sugar content.

Advertising could be honest, ha ha. So New, Low Fat! should also say But Still High Sugar if it is.

It's a double-sided coin: Goods advertised will often be those with a huge profit margin which enables supermarkets to engage in price wars for staples. If sales of high earners fell substantially, arguably staples would go up, which are they doing now anyway due to economic factors.

For younger children, it's allowed for a food to be marketed as a current TV/film/game cartoon character's favourite food which undoubtedly has impact. It's hard to see how that could be banned without deafening screams of Nanny State, with some justification since the ultimate get-out-of-jail-free card is free country equals free (buying) choice.

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby Stokey Sue » Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:40 pm

I remember demanding Milly Molly Mandy’s favourite comfort food, bread and milk (served as a sort of porridge)

Yuk

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby Pepper Pig » Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:46 pm

I grew up on bread and milk.

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby Stokey Sue » Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:04 pm

Which goes to show that whatever the encouragement or the example, you either like it or you don’t!

Says the person who hates doughnuts:D

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby Earthmaiden » Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:23 pm

Stokey Sue wrote:That's the point
What is this "ultra processed food" of which you speak?
There is no accepted scientific definition of ultra processed food
The Nova definitions, which are the nearest there are to an accepted set of definitions, are tosh in my opinion (and of many others)

Without such a definition you cannot do scientifically valid studies that correlate the consumption of "ultra processed food" with anything at all

Nobody knows what upf is, but they are all against it! And there is a tremendous amount of snobbery involved

It may well turn out that it is possible to set criteria that identify categories undesirable foods but we aren't there yet as far as I can see


From a scientific point of view, I know you know what you're talking about. However, it does seem to have been proven that the types of food which fall under the 'ultra' umbrella are the very same that appear, in the western world at least, to provide a good few empty calories, encourage overeating with their addictive pull and/or point towards undesirable medical conditions in later life. They are also cleverly marketed with bright colours, emotional appeal, cartoons etc. They're often overpackaged too. When you look into the histories of most of the largest global companies promoting this type of food you often find that they stem originally from gluts caused by overfarming or to use up byproducts from something else tarted up with salt, sugar and flavourings and that occasionally they were fortified and then marketed as good for people and convenient. A lot of people have made a great deal of money from this for over a hundred years.

Of course snobbery and politics play a huge part but surely there has been enough research to point to many of these foods being undesirable to health when eaten for anything more than an occasional treat (if not, why is it that when people do develop health issues they are advised not to eat them?) but they are cheap enough to be within the reach of most people. I find it quite upsetting to watch lovely children turn into obese adults or at least ones that struggle with weight and have the desire to eat constantly and have health problems as they get older and it does seem as though when people eat enough food which has been less processed they have less desire to overeat. It's a strain on the NHS too but meanwhile the Fat Cats get fatter. Surely some kind of brake needs to be put on the situation? The industry affects mass farming and climate change as well as health. The taxing of sugary drinks and changing of advertising laws is a teeny nod in the right direction but I can't see a government whose cronies are the fat cats doing a great deal (and that would go for whoever was in power).

This is what NOVA is all about - http://www.fao.org/3/ca5644en/ca5644en.pdf

Sorry, I was saving my reply above until I had time to gthink about it and now we're onto bread and milk. I never fancied that either. Milly Molly Mandy also had jacket potatoes with butter and I always longed to try them!

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby Pepper Pig » Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:26 pm

My bread and milk was never mashed. All elements were identifiable. :lol:

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby Amyw » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:58 pm

It’s a difficult one to define isn’t it . At what point does food become nutritionally empty enough to class as junk food .
Burger and chips could seem junk food but if you get a decent burger made don good quality meat , salad , a good source of carbs etc .. is it actually “ok”?

My viewpoint is most food should have some good for the body but some food should be good for the soul and mind too . Sometimes that might be fish and chips or a gungy pud . I think overall being aware of portion control and nutritional content is taking responsibility for your health but there are some times where your food is just 100 per cent pleasure

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby Badger's Mate » Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:21 am

Any definitions about junk food will catch items that people wouldn't consider junk, such as artisan cheese, clotted cream, jam, pickles, sourdough bread. Some things that people regard as junk seem to me to be a perfectly reasonable meal, a shish or chicken kebab with salad for example. Baked beans would once have been looked down on as junk food, the manufacturers have had to bring out lower salt & sugar versions to overcome the stigma, but they're now considered OK. The occasional high fat/salt/sugar or low fibre meal doesn't matter - indeed, as you say Amyw they bring a lot of people a lot of pleasure. What's important is the diet, not the food, but in the long term a diet high in fats salt and sugars but low in fruit, veg and fibre will probably increase the chances of obesity, type 2 diabetes, gut cancers and cardiovascular problems.

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby Stokey Sue » Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:15 pm

There seems to be an attempt to define “ultra processed” as distinct from “junk” though I’m not convinced that’s anything more than hep talk

I also don’t like the phrase “empty calories”, excess calories are obviously a problem, but there are plenty of people in plenty of situations where the immediate need is for fuel, even if it’s an energy drink or Kendal mint cake, and in the west we have got so obsessed now that if anyone says diet or healthy diet/food we mentally insert a qualifier such as low-calorie or slimming; hospitals have difficulty getting patients to consume high calorie foods when medically indicated.

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby Badger's Mate » Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:11 pm

Of course, by any definition, most Michelin starred restaurants prepare ultra processed food.

By comparison, fish & chips, fried chicken or burgers are much simpler and less processed. :D

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby aero280 » Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:34 pm

We will all be on a diet if the lorry driver shortage isn't fixed.

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby KeenCook2 » Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:18 pm

I found the article itself very interesting

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... our-health

but nothing new in the 7 keep things healthy pointers at the end.

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby dennispc » Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:46 am

I read that too KC2, perfect for lovers of red wine and dark chocolate!

One day last week the highlights of Tour de France included an interview with a professor of Metabiology(?) working with the UAE team. Talking about Pogačar, current leader, and his ability to metabolise fat and proteins faster than most people. Hence his success.

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby Stokey Sue » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:18 am

It’s a good article, I usually find Rebecca Seal worth reading, but as you say the things to do aren’t really news to anyone interested in the topic

There’s an interesting report out, The Broken Plate Report from the Food Foundation. I haven’t read it all or been into the definitions but one of their key metrics is the cost of healthy food compared to unhealthy food, their conclusion is that each kcal of healthy food costs three times as much as each kcal of unhealthy food

https://foodfoundation.org.uk/publicati ... late-2021/

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby scullion » Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:43 pm

aero280 wrote:We will all be on a diet if the lorry driver shortage isn't fixed.

foraging will come into its own!
i have bought myself a book on seaweed - there is only one known toxic one (deeper water rather than tide line) but i want to know that i'm not trying rare ones.

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby KeenCook2 » Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:33 pm

That looks like a really good link Sue.

dennispc wrote:I read that too KC2, perfect for lovers of red wine and dark chocolate!


Sadly, both potential migraine inducers :thumbsdown I'm ok with chocolate - my prob is once I start, I can't stop!
But red wine is pretty much a no-no for me.

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Re: Healthy Eating

Postby dennispc » Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:57 am

That’s a shame KC2; I’m fortunate in that I’ve never been keen on red wine, enjoy dark chocolate but only a couple of pieces at a time. Sadly, I’ll have to do without such health giving food and hope my plant breakfasts and daily salads will do instead! :lol:

OH will sympathise as she's had to cut out a lot of her favourites, especially cheese and chocolate though she's making brave efforts to wean herself from milk to dark!

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