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Veganuary

For all refugees from the old Beeb Food Boards :-)
Chill out and chat with the foodie community or swap top tips.
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Moderators: karadekoolaid, THE MOD TEAM, Stokey Sue, Gillthepainter

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Re: Veganuary

Postby karadekoolaid » Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:36 pm

OK - in defence of Grassy, I don´t think she was trying to be offensive, but it´s quite possible that she was confronted by someone in a restaurant, aggressively pushing their lifestyle choice. as an example, I remember being outside Harrod´s the last time I was in the UK and getting harrassed by a totally naked young lady from PETA, screaming at all the passers-by. If she believed that would change people´s minds - fine. I disagreed.
If you are sitting down to a meal, you´re supposed to be able to enjoy it, not have someone bothering you from their personal soapbox. And that goes for lifestyles, politicians, climate changers, religious groups, everyone who has an axe to grind or a crusade to run.
Evidently, for Grassy, plant-based milk doesn´t taste nice. That might be the case for many others as well, while there are some ( or many) who prefer it over cow´s or goat´s milk. Personally, I can´t say I´ve tried it, so I can´t offer an opinion, but I´m sure if I gave it to my mum, she´d have a fit. (93 tomorrow, lots of butter, cream, milk and cheese :oops: ) Nor can I account for quorn, which I´ve never eaten, but it would probably fit into my category of "it´s what you do with it" foods - tofu, ricotta, polenta. It´s also important to take into account that a good percentage of the population are simply not interested in changing their eating habits and are not foodies; and that might sound like a generalisation, but I have an idea it might well be true.
Finally, it´s important to consider that nowadays, we live in a world where minorities are generally respected, thank goodness. My numerous gay friends no longer feel oppressed, nor does my Muslim uncle, and I´m happy to see that Vegetarianism (unlike when I was at college) represents about 6% of the population. Another 6% is Muslim. 1.4% are vegans. 6% are gay. For a percentage of the population, only the majority is important, and it WILL take time to change that, although change is undoubtedly on the way.
The only thing I would add is that tolerance is extremely important. Sometimes we say things we truly believe, but the words don´t come out right.

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Re: Veganuary

Postby smitch » Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:50 pm

A lot of vegans (possibly most) are totally against PETA and their tactics. I don’t agree with extremists of any kind.

I am an extremely tolerant person, I don’t like the suggestion that I’m not simply because I challenged generalisations someone made.

I’ll leave it here though and will refrain from further comment. I thought healthy debate and discussion was allowed but I was clearly mistaken. I’ll bear that in mind if I return, which to be honest is unlikely.

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Re: Veganuary

Postby Pampy » Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:16 am

Smitch - you ARE very tolerant and your contributions to this board are always interesting, well-balanced and I am sure valued by all of us. Please don't go! :newhuggy

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Re: Veganuary

Postby Amyw » Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:57 am

Seconded smitch please don’t go . I totally agreed with you about the wording of the post and I think a good debate is a good thing .

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Re: Veganuary

Postby Suffs » Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:38 am

I do find it difficult to debate this subject as I am a confirmed omnivore and feel constantly disapproved of by a vocal minority. I eat vegetarian and vegan dishes ... I don’t think I eat them more often than I used to but I am possibly more aware of when I am doing it nowadays ... such dishes used to be simply part of my normal ‘mixed diet’ but now they have a ‘label’ and the whole subject seems polarised.

Pondering on why I find it difficult, I think it is because of the censure felt by meat eaters from ‘ethical vegetarians’ ... we feel judged and disapproved of. Over the years many many of my friends have followed a vegetarian diet, but they have not attempted to convert me or say that I am morally wrong for eating meat and dairy products ... but more recently this is the charge levelled against omnivores by a vociferous minority of vegetarians and vegans.

I am ‘a foodie’ ... I care about what I eat and how it is produced and prepared. I also believe that the extensive (as opposed to intensive) farming of animals has an important part to play in feeding the world’s population. Many areas are not suitable for grain and pulse production and the ploughing of grassland releases carbon into the atmosphere ... a grazing ley is as much a method of carbon capture as the planting of woodland, and provides another type of habitat for important invertebrates. There are many other points in favour of the suitability of mixed farming in some parts of the world.

I also understand and care about animal welfare ... I have reared my own animals for meat ... I’ve ensured that they had as good a life and as stress free death as was possible. It was certainly less stressful than the death of a gazelle being chased across the Serengeti and torn apart by a pack of prairie dogs, or the death of a mouse or a wren at the mercy of a cat. I have no quarrel with anyone who chooses not to eat meat, so why am I, a creature who evolved to be an omnivore, being disapproved of by activists on ethical grounds, because of my choice to follow a diet which is natural for my species? I too am part of the animal kingdom just as the prairie dogs are.

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Re: Veganuary

Postby mistakened » Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:45 pm


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Re: Veganuary

Postby Gillthepainter » Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:41 pm

Vegan food rocks!
I'm not talking about vegan sausages or vegan Greggs pies. But the cuisine. I think it's wonderful.

Labour intensive though, from my experience. Such as making seitan sausages from scratch. It took ages.

But of the 25 or so cookbooks I kept from a ruthless cull, 5 are vegan. And I love all the recipes I've tried. Especially the blackbean chilli vegan tamale, for example.
It's fine food, and not just for a January kick.

I could never become a vegan, unless for health reasons I guess. As my husband is a real meat eater. Not a lot of it, but it features highly in a meal for him.

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Re: Veganuary

Postby Gruney2 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:08 pm

Please believe me, I have absolutely no wish to be contentious, but I'm struggling to understand how a vegan diet can be regarded as a complete regimen if you have to take a supplement - B12.

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Re: Veganuary

Postby scullion » Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:17 pm

i find it strange that it can be such a divisive subject - although it's interesting that meat eaters are now getting the taste (so to speak) of what vegetarians (and vegans) have had for so long - the questioning (and sometime ridicule) of why they eat what they eat.
i'm vegetarian, apart from the usual reasons (health, welfare and global costs) because i wouldn't be able to kill an animal to eat it - if people can that's fine by me although i do think people should be more aware about from where and how the pre-packed, supermarket offerings get there.
many of those questioning meat-eaters push on and ask why i wear leather shoes etc. i can, and have in the past, skinned dead animals which may be hypocritical but i think gives me the right to wear leather.
surely we should live our lives according to our own codes without being questioned why by others - those questions should come from ourselves.

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Re: Veganuary

Postby Gillthepainter » Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:25 pm

I take B12, and I'm an omnivore.
I adore lots of eggs, and all things chicken-y.
Maybe it was a blip in my blood test at the time (winter), that showed I was low and not absorbing B12 at the time. But the doc recommended Vit-D, and B12. So I take it quite happily, it's not an issue to take Vits and supplements for me.

And not all vegans in the same way as far as I'm aware, have to take B12 as a supplement.

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Re: Veganuary

Postby scullion » Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:30 pm

Gruney2 wrote:Please believe me, I have absolutely no wish to be contentious, but I'm struggling to understand how a vegan diet can be regarded as a complete regimen if you have to take a supplement - B12.

many meat eaters have to take suppplements - my mother had to take regular injections of b12. vegetarians don't have to supplement with pills for b12 it's available in loads of foods - including marmite and other yeast products.
many people who eat meat but few green veg or fruit may need to supplement with vitamin c.
if it's done right, both/all variations of diet can be complete.

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Re: Veganuary

Postby Gruney2 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:17 pm

Ah - I see. Thank you.

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Re: Veganuary

Postby Suffs » Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:54 pm

scullion wrote:
Gruney2 wrote:Please believe me, I have absolutely no wish to be contentious, but I'm struggling to understand how a vegan diet can be regarded as a complete regimen if you have to take a supplement - B12.

many meat eaters have to take suppplements - my mother had to take regular injections of b12. vegetarians don't have to supplement with pills for b12 it's available in loads of foods - including marmite and other yeast products.
many people who eat meat but few green veg or fruit may need to supplement with vitamin c.
if it's done right, both/all variations of diet can be complete.


Totally agree :thumbsup ... what I don’t understand is the insistence of some folk that everyone else should be made to conform to their ideas of what is right/moral/ethical ... heaven preserve us from evangelists ... of all persuasions.

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Re: Veganuary

Postby jeral » Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:39 pm

First, I read smitch's post as meaning that she was opting out of this thread, so am fully expecting her posts on other threads. I've stayed out thus far because veganism means different things to different people so is a potential minefield, but is still only sticks and stones even at its worst and as said it's our personal reasoning we should be prepared to stand by, not someone else's.

Personally, I'd find a vegan diet tricky so I might have strong views on some things but casually ignore them, i.e. hypocrite.

It is the case IMO that for the pros on both sides, there are cons on both sides, so what happens is in the will of the nation as a whole. For example it occurs to me that when I gave up meat, I basically just washed my hands of bad animal welfare. Maybe I should have stuck with it and fought the fight from the inside? I'm not convinced that more people giving up meat will help reduce bad welfare, perhaps the opposite to achieve even cheaper pricing.

Meanwhile, there are enough vegans now to be taken notice of, at least by some restaurants even if telly chefs wish they'd disappear quietly and some restaurateurs disdainfully reserve the seats next to the loos to eat the token single offering :(

I suspect many Veganuarians will have forgotten by February, as I don't believe converting can be done overnight, so without proper planning and understanding in advance as well as learning ongoing.

The new fake meats make like for like swaps easy, which might be in the spirit but aren't necessarily good in the nutritional sense and this new market has clearly set back vegan creativity in one fell swoop by edging out genuine vegan and veggie dishes from the shelves, which could take years to gain back lost ground.

It's all very intertwined and complicated isn't it?

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Re: Veganuary

Postby Pampy » Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:50 pm

jeral wrote:First, I read smitch's post as meaning that she was opting out of this thread, so am fully expecting her posts on other threads.

No - Smitch has said on another thread that she doubts that she'll be posting on this forum again.

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Re: Veganuary

Postby Suffs » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:46 pm

That’s a huge shame ... the board will be the poorer without her contributions ... I have to admit I’m mystified as to the reason ... I must’ve missed something :?

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Re: Veganuary

Postby WWordsworth » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:58 pm

Me too, I was wondering if something had happened that I didn't see.

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Re: Veganuary

Postby KeenCook2 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:18 pm

I have a feeling smitch might have mentioned something a few days ago - maybe the new course is going to take up more time.

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Re: Veganuary

Postby Suffs » Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:38 pm

Right ... that would make sense ... I’d thought maybe something had upset her ... that would be sad ... she’s had a rough time recently. I don’t do Fbook tho, so I’ll miss her :cry:

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Re: Veganuary

Postby Amyw » Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:12 pm

I think we should just all be considerate of each other’s viewpoints when it comes to everything including dietary choices .

Maybe we should gently steer this back onto the original topic more ? I’m always interested in more plant based food so will look forward to hearing more about your Veganuary. If I make any vegan meals , deliberately or otherwise , I will post in here

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