Register

Lab Grown Meat

For all refugees from the old Beeb Food Boards :-)
Chill out and chat with the foodie community or swap top tips.
NOTE: CHATTERBOX IS IN THIS FORUM

Moderators: karadekoolaid, THE MOD TEAM, Stokey Sue, Gillthepainter

User avatar
Posts: 8629
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:02 pm
Location: Stoke Newington, London

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby Stokey Sue » Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:57 pm

Exactly! Use chicken cells, you get chicken meat

I think they will probably be able to get rid of the serum soon

User avatar
Posts: 3146
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby jeral » Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:05 pm

Many thanks. Am I right in thinking that all three of mineral, vitamin and protein needed for feeding cells could possibly be extracted from non animal sources? I know they exist otherwise and we can extract things so seems feasible depending on cost.

It crossed my mind that if domesticated animals/meat were to be no more, whether the planet would be decimated of wild animals from hunting for black market "fixes", or maybe all wild animals would already be close to extinction anyway due to their habitats being destroyed. Everything has a knock-on effect or unforeseen consequence somewhere down the line...

User avatar
Posts: 8629
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:02 pm
Location: Stoke Newington, London

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby Stokey Sue » Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:30 am

Well, I’m sure they are working on making the culture medium plant sourced - it’s a bit like a thin slightly sugary broth. Feeding the meat cells is probably not the big problem, it’s feeding them while making sure the broth is also a comfortable bath for them to sit in and encourages them to grow.

Can’t see farm animals going anywhere for a long time - such an important part of various agricultural cycles, and farming in places like some highlands where crops can’t be grown

Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:38 pm

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby ZeroCook » Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:15 am

Good rant KDKA, and very good points. I'm an omnivore and I eat meat and plants. I'm practitioner of mindfulness rather than righteousness. I try to eat mindfully. That goes for plants as well as animals.

As for reading up on lab meat and how it's produced, I looked for fetal bovine serum. Warning: Sorry. It's grim, but it is what it is.

Does it make it all the more gruesome? How vegan is a meat eating vegan? ** not forgetting that there's a potentially huge lucrative bio industry killing to be made when he takes his company public and makes his billions. OH always says: follow the money.


Fetal bovine serum
Fetal bovine serum (FBS) comes from the blood drawn from a bovine fetus via a closed system of collection at the slaughterhouse. Fetal bovine serum is the most widely used serum-supplement for the in vitro cell culture of eukaryotic cells. This is due to it having a very low level of antibodies and containing more growth factors, allowing for versatility in many different cell culture applications.

-cut-

Production
Fetal bovine serum is a by-product of the dairy industry. Fetal bovine serum, as with the vast majority of animal serum used in cell culture, is produced from blood collected at commercial slaughterhouses from dairy cattle that also supply meat intended for human consumption.

The first stage of the production process for fetal bovine serum is the harvesting of blood from the bovine fetus after the fetus is removed from the slaughtered cow. The blood is collected aseptically into a sterile container or blood bag and then allowed to clot. The normal method of collection is cardiac puncture, wherein a needle is inserted into the heart. This minimizes "the danger of serum contamination with micro-organisms from the fetus itself, and the environment".[6] It is then centrifuged to remove the fibrin clot and the remaining blood cells form the clear yellow (straw) colored serum. The serum is frozen prior to further processing that is necessary to make it suitable for cell culture.



** from the Guardian article:
"Eat Just say they have now developed a “an animal-free nutrient recipe to feed our cells and have successfully created chicken that does not require animal derived ingredients in the culture media,” however, this is still “pending regulatory review”. The chicken approved by Singapore is “produced with a very low level of bovine serum,” Eat Just say. “However this is effectively removed through the harvesting and washing procedure.”"

Purleeze...

User avatar
Posts: 4920
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:52 pm
Location: North West London

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby Pepper Pig » Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:03 pm


User avatar
Posts: 1489
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby Badger's Mate » Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:37 pm

If the technology matures and makes it cheap enough, people will buy it. As long as it can legally be sold as beef or chicken and therefore can be used in beef or chicken based products, if it's cheap, it will sell.

User avatar
Posts: 8629
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:02 pm
Location: Stoke Newington, London

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby Stokey Sue » Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:05 pm

I agree, as long as the squirm factor of using the foetal serum is overcome, which to be honest most peopel won't be aware of unless they are very keen, then price and flavour will be what determines sales

And it looks as if they are able to move to a non-animal culture medium already, which makes me think they may have muddied the waters by jumping the gun, but maybe they need a licence to attract further capital investment

I think the idea that it's aimed at vegans and vegetarians is probably mis-direction, a few vegetarians may be convinced by the lack of direct association with slaughter, but I think the market is peopel who eat meat and want to do so affordably and sustainably - assuming they can make the product fit those criteria quite soon

User avatar
Posts: 1489
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby Badger's Mate » Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:42 pm

The current price and manufacturing method is clearly an obstacle, but that will change. Nobody would have bought mobile phones the size of shoe boxes that cost three month's wages, but now they're tiny, can be very cheap and are ubiquitous.

I think the legal status is important, we will buy a 'meat Madras' from our high street tandoori restaurant, but generally, products would have to be based on specific meats. Once that were the case, products such as beef lasagna or chicken pie would be bought as now. There might be a niche market for 'free range', 'organic' or 'gourmet' but a much larger one for cheap. I suspect that's where the future of this stuff will lie.

User avatar
Posts: 1547
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:16 pm

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby dennispc » Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:10 pm

Going back to the second article,

‘meat eating vegan’ is the sort of flip comment I’d make on a par with being a ‘doubting agnostic’. She does go on to explain herself with, “…my body functions better with animal protein and a vegan diet just doesn’t give me what I need.” I echo that.

I don’t know anything about the difference between animal and plant proteins, would certainly like to. Unlike most people my body is lacking in sodium, eat a lot of low sodium food. I’d want to know whether cell based food contained the nutrients I need.

Currently agricultural scientists are experimenting to breed cows that produce less methane and also feed that would have the same effect.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... nd%20sheep).

Jeral mentions his friends, “Their incentive seems more about saving the planet …” in that case there would be quite a discussion between them and my vegan friend. Although strong on the health benefits (“no side effects from fibre”), and the environment, (meat production greater effect than transport), underlying it all is the exploitation of animals. There's a difference of emphasis within the community.

User avatar
Posts: 3919
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:33 pm

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby scullion » Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:16 pm

dennispc wrote: She does go on to explain herself with, “…my body functions better with animal protein and a vegan diet just doesn’t give me what I need.”

i heard that repeated by someone on the radio the other day. it makes no real sense when you can get all the essential proteins available in meat from plant based proteins, too, and every other nutrient humans need.
i wish they'd just say they like eating meat - it sounds much more honest - and less ill-educated.

dennispc wrote:Unlike most people my body is lacking in sodium, eat a lot of low sodium food. I’d want to know whether cell based food contained the nutrients I need.


sodium is sodium wherever you get it from - eat more salt?
you can get all of the other chemicals you need from non meat sources.
not sure i know what you mean by cell based food - plants are made of cells, too.

User avatar
Posts: 8629
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:02 pm
Location: Stoke Newington, London

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby Stokey Sue » Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:40 pm

If and when it gets to supermarkets I'm sure it will have a nutrition label on it for anyone who is interested

User avatar
Posts: 1547
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:16 pm

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby dennispc » Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:25 pm

Meant to type lab based food.

Adding salt when taking BP pills and blood thinners is not an option. It’s complicated, as is being deaf and having tinnitus!

I’ve been told many times that all necessary chemicals can be had from plant based food, as does NHS web site. This study mentions lack of amino acids.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6723444/

Which matches my experience.

User avatar
Posts: 3919
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:33 pm

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby scullion » Sat Dec 12, 2020 3:12 pm

hmm, some of the findings in there are marginal or inconclusive.
also, many people on a vegan/plant based diet use things like chia seeds and nuts in their diet rather than just the leguminous/cereal protein used in the paper. the necessary amino acids are all available in a wider plant based diet.

i'm still think that with the appropriate adjustments to constituents of a plant based diet there need be no difference in muscle growth/wastage between the plant based and flesh based diet. (also implied in the paper).

i think the vegan diet of gladiators (bean-eaters) wouldn't have been continued if it had been detrimental to the affluence of their trainers!

User avatar
Posts: 8629
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:02 pm
Location: Stoke Newington, London

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby Stokey Sue » Sat Dec 12, 2020 3:31 pm

That paper comes under the heading of TL;DR (too long, did not read it all)

It directly contradicts other articles I have read which have claimed that as long as there is enough protein in the diet, exercise and trace nutrients are more important in maintaining muscle mass, and personally I'm really unconvinced by acute as opposed to long term, life style studies in nutrition, it's too complex to pick out little bits in my opionion

scullion wrote:i think the vegan diet of gladiators (bean-eaters) wouldn't have been continued if it had been detrimental to the affluence of their trainers!

I very much doubt they'd have made the connection - they undoubtedly had enough beans, grains, and fats (olive oil) to maintain bulk and reasonable digestive health, so given they were exercising they would probably have maintained good muscle mass until retirement

User avatar
Posts: 3919
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:33 pm

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby scullion » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:53 am

completely agree, sue. the paper paid little, if any, lip service to the importance of exercise in maintaining muscle mass in an ageing body. it dealt, mainly, with the increase in striated muscle after meals containing protein from different sources. it mentioned no other dietary intake, vitamin content or trace elements of the diet.
i did read it all - it seemed like the kind of paper written for cpd. i didn't find it that long (i've read longer) but i did have to force myself to finish - it just didn't grab me.

User avatar
Posts: 8629
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:02 pm
Location: Stoke Newington, London

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby Stokey Sue » Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:37 am

I agree - it felt like an educational exercise more than a contribution to the research

I found the type and layout quite hard work for my eyesight and didn’t find it sufficiently engaging to struggle with aids, it takes me much longer to read things than it takes you, and I lose interest! So many more things end up being TL; DR than used to

User avatar
Posts: 1547
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:16 pm

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby dennispc » Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:11 pm

The excavations at Ephesus indicate a bean based diet, though two people ate meat and diary. The thinking is they came from other places, probably Rome. The high carb diet made them fat, possibly to protect them from deep wounds.

Modern examples of athleticism would be Djokovic, Smalling, Hamilton and Forest Green Rovers FC. Also Paulthebread; same age as me, last year raised £850 for charity by completing 1,000 press ups in an hour. Does weights most days and is currently running about three hours a day, training for a two day event next summer. He's really fit, enjoys himself no end. Tells a wonderful story when travelling home to the West Country. A few lads, well oiled, were causing a nuisance in his carriage. He challenged them to a press up challenge, bet money for charity. He won, of course. The link below came from him.

We eat lots of nuts, buy them by the kilo from Grape Tree online. But vegan Esselstyn doesn’t rate them in his plant based diet, nor olive oil etc.

https://dresselstyn.com/JFP_06307_Article1.pdf

Not for me.

User avatar
Posts: 1547
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:16 pm

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby dennispc » Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:12 pm

Sorry Sue, you may find it difficult to read, couldn't find a way to increase font size in an original document.

User avatar
Posts: 2993
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:33 pm

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby Pampy » Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:37 pm

dennispc wrote:The excavations at Ephesus indicate a bean based diet, though two people ate meat and diary.

Bet that could be painful! :lol:

User avatar
Posts: 8629
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:02 pm
Location: Stoke Newington, London

Re: Lab Grown Meat

Postby Stokey Sue » Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:39 pm

I have my methods (Watson) - but online articles I’m not very interested in aren’t worth the effort of going to the other room and turning on the desktop with all the gizmos
Quite a lot of journals, papers, blogs etc have a built in Reader View that works for me on iOS but that one had a low accessinity

Previous

Return to Food Chat & Chatterbox

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests