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Probiotics

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Probiotics

Postby Gillthepainter » Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:26 am

Anyone take anything in any form?

I've been taking a Yakult or an Actimel for some years now. I always have live Greek yoghurt (but not Greek style).
But was wondering about taking a probiotic pill supplement, and sticking with the yoghurt instead.

Any thoughts.

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Re: Probiotics

Postby Stokey Sue » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:23 am

I’ve stopped taking any of them, might consider it if I had a course of antibiotics or opioids

The whole subject is incredibly complicated, a leading academic group in this country is at King’s College, lead by Professor Tim Spector, this is a good summary of their thinking as at 2018, some of the middle section are a bit technical but a lot of it is straightforward

https://www.bmj.com/content/361/bmj.k2179

Some authorities even think long term supplementation with pure probiotics is not good because the natural microbiota (gut flora, friendly bacteria) are a very mixed population and if you “seed” it, this could end up a bit like planting a lawn where there used to be a diverse wild flower meadow

The other thing that’s important is of course prebiotics, the food components that give the bacteria a good environment, mainly fibre, no point having the bacteria if they aren’t “planted” in a good base where they are comfortably. Basically this means cereal and other plant fibres

So I don’t think it’s at all clear cut and at the moment I’m personally inclined to just let nature take its course, until there’s strong evidence that it is worth doing something else

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Re: Probiotics

Postby scullion » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:59 am

i make kefir (thanks patsy), red and white wine vinegar and occasionally kimchi. I've given up making kombucha - we didn't drink enough of it and it would often become vinegary before getting round to it.
we don't take proprietary probiotics but i hope our microbiome is reasonably healthy, being vegetarian (towards the vegan end) salad lovers.

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Re: Probiotics

Postby Pampy » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:27 pm

I feel that if you have a balanced diet and no medical issues, this sort of thing isn't needed. Humans have existed for a good few years without the need for anything other than a good diet.

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Re: Probiotics

Postby Lokelani » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:00 pm

When I had IBS for a couple of years over 20 years ago I was told to take Acidophilus (along with having tried everything else!). After that I just made sure that my breakfast yogurt was one claiming to contain pre or probiotics. The IBS vanished as mystically as it had arrived & only seems to flare up around Xmas if I eat a lot of dried fruit, mince pies etc. or sometimes for no obvious reason, stress, maybe artificial sweeteners. So perhaps sorbitol.

Now I just eat any yogurt I fancy, just because that is what I like for breakfast. After reading so much information that these good bacteria don't survive your gut anyway. Also that most things you read say that all yogurt contains good live bacteria cultures anyway.

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Re: Probiotics

Postby Badger's Mate » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:38 pm

It would seem there's definitely some truth in this, but rather like vitamins, a good deal of marketing froth on top.

The paper was interesting. I would be surprised if a disparate selection of chemicals with only a sweet taste in common ('artificial sweeteners') behaved similarly in the gut, considering them together seems wrong.

I think a diet based largely on plant matter must be important, some fermented food probably helps, but Mrs B's consultant would have a hissy fit if she were to eat unpasteurised products. I would imagine that probiotic or fermented foods might aid gut recovery from antibiotics, as Sue said, or after a bad tummy upset - no smileys required!

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Re: Probiotics

Postby Gillthepainter » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:56 pm

Interesting read, Sue, thank you. I hadn't heard of synbiotics.

Lokelani, at the moment, I'm trying to throw everything at a problem I have atm.
But I cannot tell any difference when I take these probiotics. Although sometimes, when I cannot eat anything, it's basically good to find something that I can put into my system.

I'm between visits to the doc, and thinking "it's the menopause". But I'm fast thinking it's not the menopause any more.

Ah well. It needs more investigating ......

I feel that if you have a balanced diet and no medical issues, this sort of thing isn't needed

I agree with that, Pampy.

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Re: Probiotics

Postby Gillthepainter » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:03 pm

what do you all think of the merits of cranberry juice?

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Re: Probiotics

Postby Gillthepainter » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:05 pm

Badgers, I'm dead fortunate in my life, that I can count on one had the number of times I've had antibiotics.

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Re: Probiotics

Postby Stokey Sue » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:10 pm

Gillthepainter wrote:what do you all think of the merits of cranberry juice?

That's more for the waterworks - I haven't had any for years but they used to dish it out at mum's care home on the grounds they liked it, it was fluid, an dit might help

This article seems to think it might help and WedMD is usually a good souce
https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingre ... /cranberry

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Re: Probiotics

Postby Gillthepainter » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:55 pm

It sounds quite good then, Sue.
I do like it too.

(Interestingly, Tony's reading out a plea from a women who has to give up swimming, as she has cystitis when she's swimming. Never heard of that!
The Outdoor Swimming society members are responding in droves, And are recommending a product called D-Mammose (I don't get cystitis) but what a horrid condition to have repeatedly.
She is getting all sorts of advice, one of which is don't bother with cranberry juice). Poor love.

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Re: Probiotics

Postby Stokey Sue » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:05 pm

D-mannose is a simple sugar that’s supposed to make the urine less welcoming to bacteria
It seems to be very much promoted by the alternative health brigade, but a search suggest there’s little evidence of efficacy

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Re: Probiotics

Postby Pepper Pig » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:19 pm

My best friend has lived with cystitis for nearly sixty years and was saying to me that nothing touches it these days bar one antibiotic. Things that used to knock it on the head etc. no longer do. She’s become too resistant to the cures.

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Re: Probiotics

Postby Gillthepainter » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:43 pm

What an awful affliction, PP.

I'm surrounded by the alternative health brigade. It's when you've got something unmanageable that you feel let down by the alternatives, I guess.
Especially when people "swear by it".

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Re: Probiotics

Postby Pepper Pig » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:58 pm

She’s very brave about it but it’s horrid for her.

In other news am I the only person absolutely seething about Novak Djokovic?

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Re: Probiotics

Postby Stokey Sue » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:52 pm

Pepper Pig wrote:She’s very brave about it but it’s horrid for her.

In other news am I the only person absolutely seething about Novak Djokovic?


Oh no, me too, compare and contrast with the Murray family, the LTA, and the National Tennis Centre

I described someone the other day who was taking an ill-advised route out of lockdown as "doing the full Djokovic"

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Re: Probiotics

Postby Earthmaiden » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:15 am

There seem to be a lot of people about who feel that their personas can defy nature at the moment :roll:.

I don't know what's best in the probiotic discussion. I had a colonoscopy a couple of years ago. It involves taking a dreadful concoction which completely cleanses the innards beforehand. A lady in the waiting room commented that it also cleaned all the good gut bacteria. She wasn't kidding! I started on the yogurt-like drinks straight away and a sensible diet. I tried kefir (which gave me the runs) and kombucha ( quite nice). It took several months to feel comfortable again, I think that for me a diet low in sugar and processed goods and including good yogurt worked best. There is no scientific reasoning here, just what felt right. It takes a lot for some people to get the balance right, one reads even of things like fecal transplants so maybe there's no easy answer!

Re cranberry juice. I rarely suffer from urinary troubles but have always found cranberry juice to work brilliantly if I feel there might be trouble brewing. If you read the carton/bottle ingredients, very often the % of cranberry in cranberry juice drinks is very low so should be checked carefully.

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Re: Probiotics

Postby Pampy » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:36 pm

Earthmaiden wrote:There seem to be a lot of people about who feel that their personas can defy nature at the moment :roll:.

I don't know what's best in the probiotic discussion. I had a colonoscopy a couple of years ago. It involves taking a dreadful concoction which completely cleanses the innards beforehand. A lady in the waiting room commented that it also cleaned all the good gut bacteria. She wasn't kidding! I started on the yogurt-like drinks straight away and a sensible diet. I tried kefir (which gave me the runs) and kombucha ( quite nice). It took several months to feel comfortable again, I think that for me a diet low in sugar and processed goods and including good yogurt worked best. There is no scientific reasoning here, just what felt right. It takes a lot for some people to get the balance right, one reads even of things like fecal transplants so maybe there's no easy answer!

Re cranberry juice. I rarely suffer from urinary troubles but have always found cranberry juice to work brilliantly if I feel there might be trouble brewing. If you read the carton/bottle ingredients, very often the % of cranberry in cranberry juice drinks is very low so should be checked carefully.

Cranberries are very sour so a lot of cranberry products have high amounts of sugar.

I have had a colonoscopy with all its attendant preparations and luckily, had absolutely no ill-effects after it.

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Re: Probiotics

Postby Stokey Sue » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:56 pm

The preparation for a colonoscopy shouldn’t remove all the micro flora - there will be lots of bacteria clinging to the gut wall, though obviously they will need a short time to build up their numbers again. In theory at least prebiotics (fibre) should be the be more helpful, porridge etc

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Re: Probiotics

Postby dennispc » Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:15 pm

So sorry for you Gill; our experience suggests it may take some time. At one time OH was put on a low residue (fibre diet) which helped, but we've now moved on.

Thanks Sue for the Spector link, had a quick read, will look at it again.

Gill, you may find Tim Spector’s book, the Diet Myth, very readable but don’t know enough to comment on accuracy.

Also, he runs the British Gut Project, http://britishgut.org/

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