Fresh yeast & recipe question

[Lokelani Profile]

I have some fresh yeast (yay!) & have finally got mozzarella (even more yay!!). I want to make the Antonio Carluccio pizza dough recipe that I have made a few times successfully before.

In the past I've converted the recipe to dried yeast as it's all I've ever used & it's been the best pizza dough recipe I've ever found. This time round I want to try the recipe using the fresh yeast, as it was originally written for.

What I do not understand is that the recipe states to dissolve the yeast in water with the salt & olive oil added. Recipe is below. However, I thought salt killed yeast?

I tested my out of date dried yeast with help from this forum by adding sugar to warm water to activate the yeast but don't want to add sugar to this recipe. Would just warm water work or would it take ages? Or I could test a tiny bit with sugar & water & discard, or use in a loaf of bread later the same day? Does it start losing oomph if you keep the foamy water for a while?

The yeast was delivered on Tues with a date of 4th June. It is a 50g block, I froze the other 3 x 50g blocks. I think I will get at least one large loaf as well as the pizza dough out of this fresh block. Reviews do show people have had a few dead batches so I think I need to proof or is it prove it first...

Then to use up the rest I want to make a big loaf the same day or within a couple of days. If I wrap the remaining fresh yeast up well in the fridge is it likely to be okay until its use by date, or would you all suggest to use straight away when opened?

Some pizza recipes recommend longer first rising times (2 hours) for the pizza dough to improve flavour. That would actually fit better for not having the oven on twice in a hot day, if I make the bread the same day. Does yeast rise & then collapse after a while, or is it okay to just give it longer? My kitchen will probably be 20-23 degrees tomorrow.

I make a big batch of pasta sauce today & reduced some down further for the pizzas tomorrow. Can't wait, it's something we've missed in lockdown!

Antonio Carluccio basic pizza dough recipe
Makes 4 x 28cm (11 inch) pizzas
35g (1 1/4 oz) fresh yeast (or the dried equivalent quantity of dried yeast: see the maker's instructions)
300ml (10 fl oz) warm water
A pinch of salt
2 tbsp olive oil, plus extra for greasing
600g (1 lb 5 oz) '00' flour, plus extra for dusting

Dissolve the yeast in the warm water to which you have added the salt and olive oil. Leave to froth, about 10 minutes. Pour the flour into a mound on a clean work surface and make a hole in the centre of it. Add the yeast mixture drop by drop into the centre of the flour, mixing with your hands until all the liquid is absorbed, forming large lumps. Knead the dough with your hands until it has a smooth texture, then roll it into a ball. A good pizza depends on the quality of the dough used.
Next, sprinkle some extra flour into a large bowl, and place the dough in it, spreading a little oil over the top to prevent a crust forming. Cover the bowl with a dry linen cloth and leave to rise for an hour in a warm place - not less than 20 C/ 68 F. (It was at this stage that my grandmother used to 'bless' the dough by making the sign of the cross in order that it should turn out well). After this time the dough should have increased in volume by about three times.
Now begins the preparation of the pizza proper. Preheat the oven to 230 C/ 450 F/ Gas 8. Rub four 28cm (11 inch) pizza pans or a couple of large baking trays with olive oil. Flour the work surface. Divide the dough into flour and roll each into a ball. (It is better not to use a rolling pin, but to ease the dough by gently pressing out the dough with the plump part of your hand, the heel of your thumb and with your fingers). Starting from the middle, smooth the dough out to a thickness of about 5mm (1/4 inch). Make the edges slightly thicker to prevent the topping from running off, which leaves the characteristic round edge which should go crisp in the oven.

[Stokey Sue Profile]

I don’t usually add salt when dissolving fresh yeast in water, but from my science background I think it’s putting yeast in direct contact with dry salt or a strong salt solution that upsets yeast

The recipe says a pinch of salt + 300ml water, that’s a lot less than a concentration of salt that I’d expect to really upset yeast

Sea water and blood are about 1g salt per 100ml water, I think you’d need notably more than that to do real damage to a yeast, mould or bacteria

[Lokelani Profile]

Yes I guess it is a tiny amount. I’m probably over thinking it!

[Suelle Profile Website]

If the presence of any amount of salt killed yeast, then hardly any yeast recipes would work! It must be direct contact with strong concentrations of salt which is the problem.

I tried to find out how salt actually kills yeast, but got distracted by why salt is necessary in bread recipes - very interesting.

[ZeroCook Profile]

I always dissolve yeast or starter in the water first, whatever type it is, and go from there, adding wet ingredients like oil or milk to wet and usually adding dry to dry (there are exceptions) - usually salt goes in with dry but as mentioned it's just a pinch.

I often let doughs of all types sit overnight in the fridge. I also sometimes let dough sit out all day, periodically folding it as it billows. Longer is always better for bread doughs I've found. I've left dough for several days in the fridge before using.

As for testing, it hardly seems necessary as it was delivered so recently and has a 4 june date.

[Stokey Sue Profile]

As for testing, it hardly seems necessary as it was delivered so recently and has a 4 june date.

I have learned to always test “fresh” yeast here

Most of it comes in from Germany, in little yellow packets, and while the local shops keep it carefully at the right temperature sometimes has suffered in transit. Yeast cut off a big commercial block by a local baker seems to be far more reliable

[Lokelani Profile]

If the presence of any amount of salt killed yeast, then hardly any yeast recipes would work! It must be direct contact with strong concentrations of salt which is the problem.

I tried to find out how salt actually kills yeast, but got distracted by why salt is necessary in bread recipes - very interesting.

Well yes, quite. It just seemed counterproductive to put salt in the water with the yeast., rather than in the dry bits. Of course I'm being over cautious compared to normal, I wondered if it was a typo in the recipe. It took enough weeks to get some yeast the last thing I want to do is kill it.

I normally put it to one side of the flour & the dried yeast the other. I think the problem is I've always made bread from kits, or in the breadmaker, from a recipe etc. I don't have the deep understanding of how it works to enable me to make changes. Anyone would think it was golddust I was working with, not yeast!!

Thanks Zerocook too, that gives me more confidence, I can have a grand old baking day today.

I'm really looking forward to handling & smelling the fresh yeast. When little I remember Mum buying it in Holland & Barrett & then the smell of it rising in foamy water on top of the boiler.

It came in little yellow cubes with Kronjast on them. Fingers crossed!

[Lokelani Profile]

Oh dear, it looks like the fresh yeast from Ocado maybe dead.

I tried some just in the warm water for the pizza dough that I don't want sugar in & it's been on a sunny windowsill for about an hour now. No bubbles, nothing, just separating into a clearer layer at the top.

About 30 mins ago I tried the rest for the loaf, with a bit of sugar in case that might pep it up a bit & test it better but nothing.

So disappointed. I put the rest of the blocks in the freezer. I'll try another but am guessing if one is dead they all are.

[Pampy Profile]

I bought the same as you from Ocado - it was 3 days out of date when I got it and as dead as a dodo!
They probably don't store it properly in the warehouses.

[Lokelani Profile]

Oh dear, I shan't hold out hope for the ones in the freezer then. The false hope it gave of having yeast delivered is almost worse than the weeks not being able to buy any!

[Stokey Sue Profile]

I haven't bought the yellow blocks from Ocado but from 2 different shops - Whole Foods Market and a local deli, very hit and miss I find, so I suspect the problem is with the wholesaler

I think I've given up on it really

[slimpersoninside Profile]

Lokelani, is the instant dried stuff no good?

[Lokelani Profile]

Lokelani, is the instant dried stuff no good?

I haven't been able to buy any dried since this begun. I don't want to buy a huge pack from Amazon or similar, as I just don't bake that often, particularly not in hot weather. I do have a few sachets of dried left. I just really wanted to try fresh & it would have made my dried last longer. Never mind, that's life!

I'll check the ones I froze straight away & if they're dead too, as I guess they will be. I'll email Ocado & let them know.

It didn't cost much at all, but I think they should be told as it would be really awful at the moment is if someone finally got some flour & then wasted lots it due to the yeast not working. I'll add a review too.

[slimpersoninside Profile]

Fair enough.

I've seen 500g packs on offer but if you're not desperate you might be able to eek out your supply until you find more.

[ZeroCook Profile]

Oh dear, it looks like the fresh yeast from Ocado maybe dead.
.

Oh no! Sorry for my bad advice - just goes to show that dates are not not always totally reliable especially at the moment.

As you have no dry yeast it's useless to suggest that the dough be resurrected with the correct amount of dry yeast dissolved in a little water and thoroughly mixed into the dough.

If you want to avoid wasting ingredients you can freeze the dough and resurrect when you have more dry or good fresh yeast.

And definitely tell the shop people - they need to know.

[Lokelani Profile]

Not at all ZeroCook! Nothing was wasted apart from the dead yeast & that's somewhere in the food supply chain's fault! You were perfectly right, it shouldn't happen with a use by date of 4th June.

You gave me lots of really useful information & confidence in knowing that I can leave dough to rise for as long as I like. Which will make my bread making fit in better around what I'm doing, rather than the other way round.

I just love how much knowledge there is on the food forums.

[Pampy Profile]

I don't use yeast a terrific amount as I don't eat a lot of bread but I bought a 500g pack of dried yeast off t'interweb and have frozen it in 50g portions. It's use by date is November 2022 so I'm sure it'll last well in the freezer.

[ZeroCook Profile]

.... knowing that I can leave dough to rise for as long as I like. Which will make my bread making fit in better around what I'm doing, rather than the other way round.

I wouldn't make it otherwise - too much action!

If you recall from another thread, dry yeast keeps forever in the freezer. Well almost. I'd say a 500g pack of dry yeast is definitely worth having around if you make bread even once or a couple of times a month. It frees you up to try new yeast recipes and methods without having to do a mental yeast check or foray.

I'm making Tartine's croissant/danish pastry dough recipe today (half quantity) as I haven't tried that one, and the Brioche burger bun recipe that Stokey Sue posted in the bread thread a while back. The doughs have been sitting around in big covered bowls since midday doing their thing billowing and being folded when big -for hours and hours which is actually very good for sweetish/ buttery/ eggy doughs. I'm going to laminate the croissant dough (folding with butter like puff pastry) and instead of fridging for 3 hours then shaping/baking as per recipe, then I'm going to fridge it overnight or longer (as per a different recipe) and shape n bake later.

[Lokelani Profile]

I gave into temptation & bought a 500g pack of Fermipan from Amazon! I wanted to save stocks for those who baked more, but if I have that much yeast I think I will anyway.

It looks like its described as instant yeast, so I'm guessing I just treat it like the Doves Farm quick yeast I normally get from Lakeland or the Allinsons Easy blend.

So it's a good idea to keep all dry yeast in the fridge or the freezer then? Even the unopened ones? Might as well if it makes them last longer.

I really fancy having a go at cinnamon swirls & rum babas sometime.

[Stokey Sue Profile]

Fermipan is the original instant/easy blend/quick dried yeast

As far as I know they actually manufacture for many of the "other" labels - they certainly used to, so I wouldn't expect there to be a noticeable difference