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Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby Suffs » Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:17 am

Good morning Gill :wave
Mine isn't showing any more signs of life than yesterday but there is a very slight fizz on my tongue ... could it be our water ... it's very hard .... anyway, I'll give it another day ...

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby Gillthepainter » Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:22 am

I feel like it is probably OK, Suffs.
If you have fewer bubbles, then it will work, but will be slower - not a problem with sourdough!
I too am getting twitchy, as I thought I had white bread flour in, but don't. :o I'll have to see if Tesco has any today on my 10 day shop, otherwise I'm using all stoneground.

Courage ! xx

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby Gillthepainter » Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:26 am

PS
I don't have any yeast, but if you feel more comfortable after the 2 x feeds of the apple water, you can add yeast to your dough mix - when we are on breadmaking day (Sunday for me/ Monday for you)

It will be a hybrid sourdough = both leaven and yeast.
You'll have to keep your eye on it, as it might react really quickly, more active than we expect ;)

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby Suffs » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:10 pm

I have some spelt flour as well as strong wholemeal, granary and strong white, which do you think?

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby Gillthepainter » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:16 pm

Strong white, Suffs.

Spelt actually doesn't need any proving when you bake.
Granary and wholemeal, can be used in your loaf with white (50%:50% for example) - when you bake your loaf.

But I always feed starters with strong white only. (Well if I've got some in).

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby Suffs » Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:02 pm

That's fine ... strong white it will be ... tomorrow :thumbsup

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby Gillthepainter » Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:34 pm

Suffley
The good news is, this is the mix at 4pm after my walk. That's 8hrs after I fed the 150g of apple water with 150g brown flour.
It's looking rather nice and lively.
Before
Image

After
Image

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby aero280 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:51 pm

I'm interested in this as an alternative.

I've been having some success with "old dough".

I make the first mix normally with yeast but with an extra 100g of flour. Get it all mixed and proved, then when it's knocked back, take around 180g to 200g and put it in a jar in the fridge. Bake the loaf with the rest as normal.

For all subsequent loaves, I make the mix, dissolve the old dough in the water and mix it all together, knead , etc. Then take the 200g and put it in the jar for next time. Bake the rest.

Continue ad infinitum. The rise is so slow that I mix, prove and bake. No knock back and second rise. i don't think there's enough energy for that, and there are only so many hours in the day!

An overnight prove in a cool cupboard will usually work. Then straight into the oven at breakfast time.

The only danger is that you forget to put the 200g aside before baking. Then you have to start all over again.

Latest loaf looked like this...

IMG_2946.JPG
IMG_2946.JPG (56.14 KiB) Viewed 7044 times


IMG_2947.JPG
IMG_2947.JPG (85.77 KiB) Viewed 7044 times

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby dennispc » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:49 pm

Fine looking loaf aero280.

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby aero280 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:06 am

Thanks! It tastes good too! :)

I mostly make wholemeal bread. I ought to start a white sourdough and see how that goes. I only use yeast now when I'm allowed to visit our granddaughter. She is 4 years old and is fascinated by bread making. She was due another visit last week, but we're all isolating.

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby Gillthepainter » Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:41 am

That looks excellent, Aero.
And you have found yourself a tidy routine.

This is the apple water starter at 10pm (8hrs after the double feed)

Image

So at 10pm, I made the preferment = starter for our bread baking the next morning.
100g of (double fed) apple water starter above : 150g flour : 150g cold water

This morning, we have 400g of active sourdough apple water yeast that is now viable to use. Plenty of ooomph!

Image

I take:
180g of our bubbling apple water leaven
I add 380g cold tap water
660g flour: 150g granary, 350g 00 pizza flour, 160g wholeground flour
salt

Image

And now on the bulk fermentation stage - which is the first prove (the most important of the 2 to get right)

Image

tips,
make sure the dough is very wet
switch your basin for a clean one
do not overprove at this first fermentation stage
dough washes off your pans & hands with running cold tap water.

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby Gillthepainter » Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:50 am

Suffs, a recap for you today.

This am, 1st feed
strain apples and keep the apple water yeast. (don't add any more water to it) Weigh it, you might have 100g?
To 150g apple water, add 150g flour & 150g cold tap water
If you have 100g, add 100g flour & 100g cold tap water.

Before bed at 10pm, second feed to create your preferment (ie yeast for breadmaking)
100g apple water starter: 150g flour & 150g cold tap water

Sunday am
Take out 180g bubbling starter to bake your loaf of choice ...................... it will smell very yeasty!


With the left over leaven, shape them into golf ball size nuggets and freeze them.
You can take one out, and feed it the night before with 100g flour : 100g water, and have a preferment for first thing in the morning.

Image

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby PatsyMFagan » Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:37 am

I am following this thread with great interest ... it just might keep me occupied for a few days and will conquer all my reservations about making sourdough. The only thing that is holding me back is that I am the only one to eat the finished product :thumbsup

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby liketocook » Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:10 am

I'm picking up some great tips thanks folks :D

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby Suffs » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:34 pm

Right, apple water weighed and equivalent strong white flour and cold water added. Loosely covered and back in it’s warmish place. Second feed will happen before I go to bed (I’ll have to stay up! Lol)
I whisked to incorporate the flour ... is that right?

It occurred to me that maybe the apple could be used in an apple cake?
I made just such a cake yesterday so won’t make another today, but what do you think?

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby Pampy » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:28 pm

The latest Good Food magazine has a good article on sourdough starters.

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby Gillthepainter » Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:00 pm

What does it talk about, Pampy?
No reason why not to the apple in a cake. It may be a little soured/ ciderish!

After the first bulk fermentation/ 1st proof (about 3hrs), I bakers' folded the risen dough into 2 x loaves (I don't slash)

Image

Left for another 2hrs for the second proof, and baked for 40mins at 220deg.

Image

I could have more nuggets ready in the freezer, probably 15 - each will make a 2 x loaf bake when refreshed overnight.

And there you have it:
sourdough bread using an apple.

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby Pampy » Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:30 pm

It gives a step-by-step guide to making the starter and then how to use it. In the same issue, there's an article about different types of flour and what they are used for.

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby Suffs » Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:02 pm

Second feed done ...

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Re: Sourdough ... your experience and tips please

Postby ZeroCook » Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:53 am

Suffs wrote:Signs of life this morning, but not a lot .... sorry, lousy pic but you can just see the bubbles


Yeasts live on the skins and surfaces of fruit and grains, which is where they are propagated from - that being the case I wondered, Gill and Suffs -were the apples used organic and/or unwashed? More organic, less washed would yield more yeast spores which would multiply and produce CO2 ie bubbles. The inside of apples can also ferment but am not sure if that type of fermentation produces yeast or something else. Thinking along the lines of lactic acid and pickles... as long as it works tho

Very impressive loaf Aero.

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