Old fashioned curry powder

[Sakkarin Profile]

The curry powders that are on sale today I find more akin to garam masala than the stuff my mother used to use back in the 60s (probably because we've now learned so much more about the origins of Indian food). Has any one any idea what the difference is? I've got several "curry powders", but none reproduce that distinctive smell I remember of old time curry powder. I'm looking to recreate my mum's egg curry (complete with raisins and badly cooked rice). Dreadful maybe, but a nostalgic urge.

The closest I've found are probably the Chinese curry sauce pastes and a Korean curry powder I bought in my Korean fling, but both are sauce mixes, not standalone curry powder.

Were there familiar brand names that could be checked for ingredients, or were they generic products from the 60s equivalent to Tesco?

I don't recall any heat in them, so I'm guessing they had no chilli powder, and very yellow, brighter yellow than turmeric seems. I'm intrigued as to there was a particular ingredient that gave it it's distinctive smell. Fenugreek maybe...

[Joanbunting Profile]

I suspect that curry powder sold in France is more akin to "old fashioned" UK curry powder. The french do not like very spicey things though they often present dishes which they call Indien which seem heavy on the tumeric with a hint of cumin and paprika and a very small amount of cayenne. If you like I'll send you a sample.

[Badger's Mate Profile]

I would have said heavy on the turmeric, some chilli/Cayenne for sure, and maybe as Joan suggests, a bit of cumin and paprika. My Dad, who didn't do much cooking, used to make a beef curry with onion, apple, curry powder and vinegar. There was a definite yellow tinge to it.

I can remember one curry powder branded Veeraswarmy but I think they were available at the Co-Op or Home and Colonial under other labels.

[Stokey Sue Profile]

Elisabeth David complained about the "coarse reek of fenugreek" in commercial curry powders, so I suspect that was an element (though she does have a track record of deeming any flavouring she personally disliked as wrong)

My mother used Vencat's Madras, which came in two forms, Mild and Hot, and definitely had some chilli in it. it was imported by Sharwoods, and I think became Sharwood's later



I found this when searching for the ingredients (but it dates to 2011)
Ingredients: CORIANDER, CUMIN, CHILLI, GINGER, MUSTARD, TURMERIC, SALT, SPICES

I have always found Chinese curry to be very different, I dislike it and even for those who love it, I think it contains star anise, and possibly quite a lot of cassia, which doesn't seem very Madras to me (and don't get me started on the vile mess that is Japanese katsu curry; what is that weird aftertaste?)

The one I have at the moment, which reminds me of the 1960 and 70s, is Fiddes Payne Authentic Madras. I got mine in Lidl, in a very pretty tin. The matching garam masala is good too, and the Chinese 5 spice.

Here's a link
https://www.fiddespayne.co.uk/store/p358/Fiddes_Payne_Madras_Curry_Powder_110g.html

Ingredients
Ground coriander, ground cumin, ground turmeric, chilli powder, salt, ground fennel seeds, red lentils, ground bay leaves, fenugreek powder, ground cinnamon, garlic powder, ground cloves.

[Badger's Mate Profile]

That's the one I was thinking of, but got the name wrong. I think Veeraswarmy also had a curry powder or paste, but it was the Vencat brand we saw most commonly.

[Stokey Sue Profile]

I think Vencat's was pretty ubiquitous, as you'd expect if distributed by Sharwood. I think the small (very trad English) Spar grocery attached to the newsagent near my parents sold it alongside the mousetrap cheese, eggs, and cornflakes.

The other fairly widespread brand was Bolst's, which might be a candidate Mrs David's fenugreek fest (I think she mentions Bolst's somewhere), it's still around, lurking in the corners of old fashioned Asian grocers, but also stocked by both Rafi's and Spices of India

Ingredients: Coriander, Turmeric, Chillies, Mustard, Ginger, Cumin Seed, Fenugreek Seed.

https://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Bolsts-Curry-Powder.html

[patpoyntz Profile]

We had ancient relatives visit us in the 60’s who had lived in India for years. They taught my Mother to make a beef curry using Bolsts., I suppose they knew she wouldn’t want to buy all the different spices, (though she did a few years later, and became very interested in making all kinds of Indian food) Anyway, I rarely use curry powder, but if I do, I use Bolsts hot. I buy the smallest tin, as it does go off quickly once opened, and I keep it in the freezer.

[Gillthepainter Profile Website]

I've not heard of Bolsts. Where do you buy it?

Not long ago, I got a Chinese curry powder from our Chinese market.
To make a Singapore noodle salad dish for a family buffet.
It made the dish taste of coffee - I think it had chicory in it.

Demolished when the younger party goers got back at 3am from a club, and their taste buds were subdued.

[patpoyntz Profile]

I think Indian grocers sell Bolsts, but we don’t have any where we live, so I buy it on line

[Stokey Sue Profile]

Bolst’s is pretty widely available Gill, if you look at the link I put above so you can recognise the tin you should spot it - or order it on line when you buy other things

Both the recipes I have use Madras curry powder rather than Chinese, and I think Cai at the noodle bar uses it too.
I think the backstory or “creation myth” of Singapore noodles is that a Hong Kong cook added some Madras spice to some bland Chinese noodles and liked the result but thought that the combination of Indian and Chinese flavours was probably more typical of Singapore than HK and came up with the name

Probably a load of tosh but also strangely plausible

[Gillthepainter Profile Website]

I believe it.
I don't know the brand of the powder I have in my cupboard, as it's been decanted into a glass jar, without label. Who would do such a thing!
Wish I knew, as it's a good blend.

Our Indian market is just over the road. I'll take a look for it.
As I need to go through my cupboards and discard old spices. When I open the doors to one in particular cupboard, plastic containers tumble out. I spend more time stacking/ramming them back in, than I do using the darned things.

[Alexandria Profile]

According to one of the Indian Kiosks at the
Le Mercat de La Boqueria in Barcelona, there
are a million types, each restaurant and
family having their own "take" on curry
powders. This is one of them, sold in
an oak barrel:

2 Tblsps. coriander
1 tblsp. cumin
1 tblsp. tumeric
1/ 2 tblsp. or 1 tblsp. smoked red dried chili peppers depending
on one´s tolerance for chili pepper
1/2 tsp. ground ginger
1/ 2 tablsp. ground black peppercorns
1/ 2 tsp. cardamom
1/ 2 tsp. ground mustard seed
1/ 2 tsp. Fenugreek

[Stokey Sue Profile]

Yes, there are dozens of different spice mixtures

But these branded, mass produced, “Madras” curry powders such as Bolst, Vencat and Sharwood are an Anglo Indian tradition, and when we were children most houses would have a pack in the cupboard

I wouldn’t use them to make my curry now, but a spoonful goes into quite a lot of English recipes, and some French and Italian too

[Sakkarin Profile]

Astonishing pic of a 19th century pack of Vencat curry powder!!!
http://www.foodsofengland.co.uk/currypowder.htm

I thought you may have meant "Vencatachellum" as the full length version of Vencat, rather than "Veeraswamy" Badger'sMate, but on googling I see Barts have a Veeraswamy brand. Not sure if it's a heritage brand of the famous restaurant or a recent adoption of the name though. I have a 1956 Veeraswamy recipe book (although spelt "Veerasawmy") - absolute rubbish it is! They might have had a name brand back then though.
https://market.bart-ingredients.co.uk/p ... urry-paste

1969 recipe from one of Stokey's links I think... says "24 ingredients", I suspect some are there so they can say 24, rather than for any real benefit. Looks like the kind of thing my mum might have cremated, sultanas and all.

[karadekoolaid Profile]

Here´s a recipe from Mrs Beeton ( the new edition, 1909):
8 ozs. turmeric
6 ozs. coriander seeds
3 ozs.cardamom
3 ozs. cumin seeds
3 ozs. fenugreek
1 oz. cloves
1 oz. white peppercorns
1/4 oz, cayenne

She also mentions that "Curry Powder" :
"is composed of various condiments and spices, which include cardamom-seed, coriander-seed, cumin-seed,dried cassia leaves,dried chilies, cayenne, ginger, mustard seed, turmeric, cinnamon, mace and cloves. It owes its peculiar flavour to the presence of turmeric, a variety of ginger largely grown in the East Indies

Indian cooks do not use "curry powder"; they use their own mixtures of spices (depending on what they are going to prepare). However, many families will prepare their own "masala" - which is simply a mix of different spices. As Sue mentioned, "curry" is Anglo-Indian.

[Gillthepainter Profile Website]

Does everyone think "old fashioned" includes an apple? I see it in your picture, Sakkers.

My twin went on the most sophisticated new microwave oven evening course, back in the 80s.
And her microwave signature dish was a beef curry. Nuke for 20mins. Stir. Nuke for 10mins.
The apple seemed to make it. Coupled with those desiccated coconut sprinkles upon serving.

When I make my own, I make a paste, not powder.

[Stokey Sue Profile]

We didn’t put apple in it I don’t think

I notice most of the diy blends contain cardamom, I don’t think that appears in most of the basic commercial blends, it’s expensive to start with and loses its flavour very fast once ground

[Badger's Mate Profile]

thought you may have meant "Vencatachellum" as the full length version of Vencat, rather than "Veeraswamy" Badger'sMate, but on googling I see Barts have a Veeraswamy brand.

There definitely was a Veeraswarmy product in the 60s or 70s, it was in a tin or jar with a picture of the interior of the restaurant on it.

Do you remember the tins with a curry in one end and rice in the other?

[jeral Profile]

Harvey's Duo Cans. I was young when they arrived. You is makin' me feel old!

There tended to be a lot of curries in the early 70's with fruit in, eg sultana, apricot (with lamb) plus coconut in some. Maybe a Peshwar influence?

I used to put grated eating apple and carrot in tomatoes when making spag bol. Never added sugar though so perhaps the sweetness of them helped mitigate the acidity of the toms. I don't remember apple noticeably in curry though.

[Sakkarin Profile]

Do you remember the tins with a curry in one end and rice in the other?

Sounds almost as exciting as Vesta!

I'd say of all the options I've tried, this "Chip Shop/Chinese" curry sauce paste tastes the closest to old time English curry. Looking at the ingredients, fenugreek is listed as the most abundant spice, so maybe that IS the culprit. Although I'd have thought MSG is not an ingredient in most curry powders...

Ingredients: Wheat Flour, Non Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil,
Curry Powder (Fenugreek, Turmeric, Coriander, Mustard, Cumin, Chillies, Fennel, Ginger, Garlic),
Flavour Enhancer Monosodium Glutamate, Salt, Sugar, Potato Powder (Dehydrated Potato, Antioxidant E223, Emulsifier E471, Stabiliser E450).

https://www.tradewindsorientalshop.co.u ... curry.html

I made what looked like a really promising chicken curry last night (make it up as you go style), but didn't trust my judgement and took a quick taste about 15 minutes before it was ready. I'D FORGOTTEN TO ADD ANY CHILLI! Half a teaspoon of chilli powder and a chopped green chilli did the trick, just enough time left for them to incorporate. It's a "bones and all" chicken leg curry, with the thigh and drumsticks chopped in half. I've got a special mallet and cleaver for that...

I'm going off the idea of recreating "mum's" curry, but an old time curry powder is still useful for some Asian dishes that specify it. Vietnamese Cari Ga (chicken curry with potato) is a good example. Here's one I made earlier. 17 years earlier I see from the date of the photo, 2002!