Register

Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

For all refugees from the old Beeb Food Boards :-)
Chill out and chat with the foodie community or swap top tips.
NOTE: CHATTERBOX IS IN THIS FORUM

Moderators: karadekoolaid, THE MOD TEAM, Stokey Sue, Gillthepainter

Posts: 2416
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:19 pm
Location: Barcelona

Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby Alexandria » Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:25 pm

Cibatta ( Chapata in Spanish ) was 1st produced by Molini Adriesi´s President and Owner, Arnaldo Cavallari in 1982 in the village of Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italia ..

The original traditional ingredients are:

wheat flour ( combo White and Whole Meal or Whole Wheat )
Italian Evoo
Yeast
Salt

The interior of Cibatta has barely any " interior " yet it is not really a flat bread and is sold primarily in rustic country type rectangular or square loaves ..

This bread was first exported to London´s Mark & Spencer in 1985 ..
Barcelona, soulful & spirited, filled with fine art, amazing architecture, profoundly steeped in culture & history, and it engages all your senses, and food fancies.

User avatar
Posts: 3146
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby jeral » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:25 am

Ah, thanks. Chapata's a baked yeast bread like Italian ciabatta if no interior, rather than Indian chapati flatbread. Perfect for soup - and croutons :)

Posts: 2416
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:19 pm
Location: Barcelona

Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby Alexandria » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:34 am

Chapata ( Spanish ) is the same bread as Cibatta in Italian ..

There is little difference depending where you buy it, the flour used to bake it and who baked it ..


It is used for croutons or sandwiches or for dipping sauces etcetra ..

It is not similar to any Indian Breads or Focaccia, the oldest Roman flat bread ..
Barcelona, soulful & spirited, filled with fine art, amazing architecture, profoundly steeped in culture & history, and it engages all your senses, and food fancies.

User avatar
Posts: 1547
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:16 pm

Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby dennispc » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:08 am

Thanks Member 461, it was a surprise to me when I first read that Ciabatta is a relatively modern bread.

It's a very wet dough, I find it easy to manage by using oil on work top and hands, though I do the same for Focaccia rather than flour.

Paul Hollywood's recipe mentions using a square tub to shape the dough.

"1.Lightly oil a 2-3 litre square plastic container. (It's important to use a square tub as it helps shape the dough)."

I can't see how. Does anyone know why?

Thank you.

User avatar
Posts: 2581
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:40 pm

Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby karadekoolaid » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:40 pm

I was also surprised to see it was only invented around 40 years ago! I´d also thought of the ciabatta as a round-ish loaf - perfect for making a Muffalata.
Ya learn sommat new every day here, doncha? :D :D

Posts: 2416
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:19 pm
Location: Barcelona

Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby Alexandria » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:32 pm

Petronius and Karakoolaide,

Yes, I too was surprised years ago, when I decided to do the research on the history of this bread. :lol: :lol:

Why I posted this was quite simple: A member here mentioned Chapati, an Indian Bread which has nothing to do whatsoever with Cibatta or Chapata.

Cibatta and Chapata are the same bread, except for the name in a different language. :lol:

There are uncountable rustic country breads, in Italy of this type which are not exported ..

I have never baked a bread in my life and have no intentions of embarking on such a project .. However, my grandmothers bake from scratch for the Christmas Holidays as my Mom does as well ..

Have a lovely day .. :wave :wave :wave :lol: :lol: :lol:
Barcelona, soulful & spirited, filled with fine art, amazing architecture, profoundly steeped in culture & history, and it engages all your senses, and food fancies.

User avatar
Posts: 3719
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:53 am
Location: near some lakes

Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby Gillthepainter » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:13 pm

i'd better answer Dennis's question then.

Ciabatta you'd hydrate at 80%.

The reason for the square tub, is for the stretch out, and fold. Look up french stretch and fold.
You turn the basin a quarter. Then stretch and fold. Turn the basin again, stretch out and fold.

With french baguettes from memory, you perform this 3 times.

Not all breads require this method. From your post, i think thats what your P Hollywood extract is referring to.

Posts: 2416
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:19 pm
Location: Barcelona

Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby Alexandria » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:04 pm

Gil, The Painter,

Thank you and have a nice day .. :wave
Barcelona, soulful & spirited, filled with fine art, amazing architecture, profoundly steeped in culture & history, and it engages all your senses, and food fancies.

User avatar
Posts: 1547
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:16 pm

Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby dennispc » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:51 pm

Here’s an old article by Dan Lepard on the short history of ciabatta, it’s a joy to read.

https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian ... ures11.g24

Thank you Gill, as I've spent a happy hour reading about stretching and folding, some which are the french way of kneading bread and not the shaping part. I’ve checked all my bread books and PH’s is the only one that mentions the need for a square proving box, other sources use round bowls without a problem.

If anyone has the time, here’s DL’s take on a ciabatta - sorry for the advert

https://www.cuisinefiend.com/284/coccodrillo-ciabatta

and a no knead version which I’ve only included because the guy is happy to throw salt onto dried yeast. I love him!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX_6l2b ... BE273A6128

User avatar
Posts: 1547
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:16 pm

Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby dennispc » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:44 pm

Gill, I've worked why PH needs a square tub. It's because he doesn't do the eight folding bit, so needs a rough square shape at the start. Had a go at baking them using my normal bowl, not square shaped, and they're OK. A bit short in length, 'cos it was a half mix and didn't want to stretch too much. They lack large holes but still edible. Sometime I'll have another go at a 'proper' version, overnight ferment and so on.

ciabatta.jpg

User avatar
Posts: 1790
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:25 am

Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby Amyw » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:54 pm

Member 461 wrote:Petronius and Karakoolaide,

Yes, I too was surprised years ago, when I decided to do the research on the history of this bread. :lol: :lol:

Why I posted this was quite simple: A member here mentioned Chapati, an Indian Bread which has nothing to do whatsoever with Cibatta or Chapata.

Cibatta and Chapata are the same bread, except for the name in a different language. :lol:

There are uncountable rustic country breads, in Italy of this type which are not exported ..

I have never baked a bread in my life and have no intentions of embarking on such a project .. However, my grandmothers bake from scratch for the Christmas Holidays as my Mom does as well ..

Have a lovely day .. :wave :wave :wave :lol: :lol: :lol:


Thank you for posting that you haven’t cooked the recipe in the original post . I always prefer to trial recipes that people post , that they have said they’ve cooked themselves, as I know they come from a tried and tested source. Have you cooked many other recipes you’ve posted, or are they from other sources

Posts: 2416
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:19 pm
Location: Barcelona

Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby Alexandria » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:48 pm

Petronius,

Thank you for the highly outstanding article on Cibatta from The Guardian.

Appreciate an exemplary read and am a history buff .. So I truly enjoyed it ..

Have a nice weekend ..
Barcelona, soulful & spirited, filled with fine art, amazing architecture, profoundly steeped in culture & history, and it engages all your senses, and food fancies.

User avatar
Posts: 3719
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:53 am
Location: near some lakes

Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby Gillthepainter » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:20 am

I always prefer to trial recipes that people post , that they have said they’ve cooked themselves, as I know they come from a tried and tested source


Amy.
I'm the same. I need to know that someone has cooked it before I will indulge.

Although on some of the bread forums, groups choose a recipe in a baking book, and have a month to try it together, untested effectively.
And post their findings, then move on to the next month and page in the book.
Mind you, the originator of the recipe obviously has tried the method.

Dennis
Let me just get my slab of butter out of the fridge ready ....................... that's beautiful bread.
Nice one, squirrel.

Posts: 2416
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:19 pm
Location: Barcelona

Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby Alexandria » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:15 am

Gil, The Painter,

I did not post a recipe for Cibatta or Chapata ..

If you re - read: I provided the history of the Founder of the internationally acclaimed Italian bread. If I were typing a récipe, I would have given the exact measurements and the instructions ! :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

My Italian Paternal Grandmother bakes Cibatta during Christmas Season and my Mom bakes Cibatta as well when we all get together ..

I do not bake as I work full time and do not have the time to do so .. :clap :clap

Have a nice weekend.
Barcelona, soulful & spirited, filled with fine art, amazing architecture, profoundly steeped in culture & history, and it engages all your senses, and food fancies.

User avatar
Posts: 3719
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:53 am
Location: near some lakes

Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby Gillthepainter » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:04 pm

Member 461
Not my question, nothing to re read. Amy was asking if you cook your recipes or about their source, not I.

I believe you make it clear you don't.
Which is why Dennis and I ask and answer each other on posts like this.
We particularly like baking bread, as do some others.

Posts: 2416
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:19 pm
Location: Barcelona

Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby Alexandria » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:49 pm

Gil,


I have cooked all my recipes over the years, Gil.

These are family recipes ( source always mentioned with an Intro as you are aware ) or recipes given to me by hotels & restaurants we frequent here and on our tours.

I do not bake due to lack of time !


All my best, Have a nice day .. :wave
Barcelona, soulful & spirited, filled with fine art, amazing architecture, profoundly steeped in culture & history, and it engages all your senses, and food fancies.

Posts: 1735
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 10:35 am

Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby Lusciouslush » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:55 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Is all I have to add...………………..

User avatar
Posts: 1790
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:25 am

Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby Amyw » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:35 pm

Thank you Gil. It’s a shame Member 461 you didn’t answer directly to me but never mind . I think the history of a dish can be interesting but it is more useful in a practical sense , to have a tried and tested recipie posted. .

User avatar
Posts: 1547
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:16 pm

Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby dennispc » Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:51 pm

Sorry Gill, got the butter out but not in time for your lunch. :D Choice of homemade soup - tomato or veg with a trace of chicke'n lamb (long story)

ciabatta 2.jpg


12 hour overnight ferment, 2.5 hours rising this morning. Divided into two lengths of dough, three pieces because one dropped out of my hands as I moved it from worktop to flat tray. :evil: Next time I'll tip the whole dough onto tray and divide it there. Look carefully at the cut pieces and you'll see some bits of raw flour, mixing not easy.

ciabatta 1.jpg

Posts: 1735
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 10:35 am

Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy

Postby Lusciouslush » Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:01 pm

:clap :clap :clap :clap Bravo Dennis...….!

I see you use the same mini processor as me - good innit!

Next

Return to Food Chat & Chatterbox

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 57 guests