Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
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- Alexandria
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- Location: Barcelona
Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
Cibatta ( Chapata in Spanish ) was 1st produced by Molini Adriesi´s President and Owner, Arnaldo Cavallari in 1982 in the village of Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italia ..
The original traditional ingredients are:
wheat flour ( combo White and Whole Meal or Whole Wheat )
Italian Evoo
Yeast
Salt
The interior of Cibatta has barely any " interior " yet it is not really a flat bread and is sold primarily in rustic country type rectangular or square loaves ..
This bread was first exported to London´s Mark & Spencer in 1985 ..
The original traditional ingredients are:
wheat flour ( combo White and Whole Meal or Whole Wheat )
Italian Evoo
Yeast
Salt
The interior of Cibatta has barely any " interior " yet it is not really a flat bread and is sold primarily in rustic country type rectangular or square loaves ..
This bread was first exported to London´s Mark & Spencer in 1985 ..
Barcelona, soulful & spirited, filled with fine art, amazing architecture, profoundly steeped in culture & history, and it engages all your senses, and food fancies.
Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
Ah, thanks. Chapata's a baked yeast bread like Italian ciabatta if no interior, rather than Indian chapati flatbread. Perfect for soup - and croutons
- Alexandria
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Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
Chapata ( Spanish ) is the same bread as Cibatta in Italian ..
There is little difference depending where you buy it, the flour used to bake it and who baked it ..
It is used for croutons or sandwiches or for dipping sauces etcetra ..
It is not similar to any Indian Breads or Focaccia, the oldest Roman flat bread ..
There is little difference depending where you buy it, the flour used to bake it and who baked it ..
It is used for croutons or sandwiches or for dipping sauces etcetra ..
It is not similar to any Indian Breads or Focaccia, the oldest Roman flat bread ..
Barcelona, soulful & spirited, filled with fine art, amazing architecture, profoundly steeped in culture & history, and it engages all your senses, and food fancies.
Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
Thanks Member 461, it was a surprise to me when I first read that Ciabatta is a relatively modern bread.
It's a very wet dough, I find it easy to manage by using oil on work top and hands, though I do the same for Focaccia rather than flour.
Paul Hollywood's recipe mentions using a square tub to shape the dough.
"1.Lightly oil a 2-3 litre square plastic container. (It's important to use a square tub as it helps shape the dough)."
I can't see how. Does anyone know why?
Thank you.
It's a very wet dough, I find it easy to manage by using oil on work top and hands, though I do the same for Focaccia rather than flour.
Paul Hollywood's recipe mentions using a square tub to shape the dough.
"1.Lightly oil a 2-3 litre square plastic container. (It's important to use a square tub as it helps shape the dough)."
I can't see how. Does anyone know why?
Thank you.
- karadekoolaid
- Posts: 2581
- Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:40 pm
Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
I was also surprised to see it was only invented around 40 years ago! I´d also thought of the ciabatta as a round-ish loaf - perfect for making a Muffalata.
Ya learn sommat new every day here, doncha?
Ya learn sommat new every day here, doncha?
- Alexandria
- Posts: 2416
- Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:19 pm
- Location: Barcelona
Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
Petronius and Karakoolaide,
Yes, I too was surprised years ago, when I decided to do the research on the history of this bread.
Why I posted this was quite simple: A member here mentioned Chapati, an Indian Bread which has nothing to do whatsoever with Cibatta or Chapata.
Cibatta and Chapata are the same bread, except for the name in a different language.
There are uncountable rustic country breads, in Italy of this type which are not exported ..
I have never baked a bread in my life and have no intentions of embarking on such a project .. However, my grandmothers bake from scratch for the Christmas Holidays as my Mom does as well ..
Have a lovely day ..
Yes, I too was surprised years ago, when I decided to do the research on the history of this bread.
Why I posted this was quite simple: A member here mentioned Chapati, an Indian Bread which has nothing to do whatsoever with Cibatta or Chapata.
Cibatta and Chapata are the same bread, except for the name in a different language.
There are uncountable rustic country breads, in Italy of this type which are not exported ..
I have never baked a bread in my life and have no intentions of embarking on such a project .. However, my grandmothers bake from scratch for the Christmas Holidays as my Mom does as well ..
Have a lovely day ..
Barcelona, soulful & spirited, filled with fine art, amazing architecture, profoundly steeped in culture & history, and it engages all your senses, and food fancies.
- Gillthepainter
- Posts: 3719
- Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:53 am
- Location: near some lakes
Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
i'd better answer Dennis's question then.
Ciabatta you'd hydrate at 80%.
The reason for the square tub, is for the stretch out, and fold. Look up french stretch and fold.
You turn the basin a quarter. Then stretch and fold. Turn the basin again, stretch out and fold.
With french baguettes from memory, you perform this 3 times.
Not all breads require this method. From your post, i think thats what your P Hollywood extract is referring to.
Ciabatta you'd hydrate at 80%.
The reason for the square tub, is for the stretch out, and fold. Look up french stretch and fold.
You turn the basin a quarter. Then stretch and fold. Turn the basin again, stretch out and fold.
With french baguettes from memory, you perform this 3 times.
Not all breads require this method. From your post, i think thats what your P Hollywood extract is referring to.
- Alexandria
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- Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:19 pm
- Location: Barcelona
Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
Gil, The Painter,
Thank you and have a nice day ..
Thank you and have a nice day ..
Barcelona, soulful & spirited, filled with fine art, amazing architecture, profoundly steeped in culture & history, and it engages all your senses, and food fancies.
Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
Here’s an old article by Dan Lepard on the short history of ciabatta, it’s a joy to read.
https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian ... ures11.g24
Thank you Gill, as I've spent a happy hour reading about stretching and folding, some which are the french way of kneading bread and not the shaping part. I’ve checked all my bread books and PH’s is the only one that mentions the need for a square proving box, other sources use round bowls without a problem.
If anyone has the time, here’s DL’s take on a ciabatta - sorry for the advert
https://www.cuisinefiend.com/284/coccodrillo-ciabatta
and a no knead version which I’ve only included because the guy is happy to throw salt onto dried yeast. I love him!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX_6l2b ... BE273A6128
https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian ... ures11.g24
Thank you Gill, as I've spent a happy hour reading about stretching and folding, some which are the french way of kneading bread and not the shaping part. I’ve checked all my bread books and PH’s is the only one that mentions the need for a square proving box, other sources use round bowls without a problem.
If anyone has the time, here’s DL’s take on a ciabatta - sorry for the advert
https://www.cuisinefiend.com/284/coccodrillo-ciabatta
and a no knead version which I’ve only included because the guy is happy to throw salt onto dried yeast. I love him!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX_6l2b ... BE273A6128
Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
Gill, I've worked why PH needs a square tub. It's because he doesn't do the eight folding bit, so needs a rough square shape at the start. Had a go at baking them using my normal bowl, not square shaped, and they're OK. A bit short in length, 'cos it was a half mix and didn't want to stretch too much. They lack large holes but still edible. Sometime I'll have another go at a 'proper' version, overnight ferment and so on.
Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
Member 461 wrote:Petronius and Karakoolaide,
Yes, I too was surprised years ago, when I decided to do the research on the history of this bread.
Why I posted this was quite simple: A member here mentioned Chapati, an Indian Bread which has nothing to do whatsoever with Cibatta or Chapata.
Cibatta and Chapata are the same bread, except for the name in a different language.
There are uncountable rustic country breads, in Italy of this type which are not exported ..
I have never baked a bread in my life and have no intentions of embarking on such a project .. However, my grandmothers bake from scratch for the Christmas Holidays as my Mom does as well ..
Have a lovely day ..
Thank you for posting that you haven’t cooked the recipe in the original post . I always prefer to trial recipes that people post , that they have said they’ve cooked themselves, as I know they come from a tried and tested source. Have you cooked many other recipes you’ve posted, or are they from other sources
- Alexandria
- Posts: 2416
- Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:19 pm
- Location: Barcelona
Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
Petronius,
Thank you for the highly outstanding article on Cibatta from The Guardian.
Appreciate an exemplary read and am a history buff .. So I truly enjoyed it ..
Have a nice weekend ..
Thank you for the highly outstanding article on Cibatta from The Guardian.
Appreciate an exemplary read and am a history buff .. So I truly enjoyed it ..
Have a nice weekend ..
Barcelona, soulful & spirited, filled with fine art, amazing architecture, profoundly steeped in culture & history, and it engages all your senses, and food fancies.
- Gillthepainter
- Posts: 3719
- Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:53 am
- Location: near some lakes
Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
I always prefer to trial recipes that people post , that they have said they’ve cooked themselves, as I know they come from a tried and tested source
Amy.
I'm the same. I need to know that someone has cooked it before I will indulge.
Although on some of the bread forums, groups choose a recipe in a baking book, and have a month to try it together, untested effectively.
And post their findings, then move on to the next month and page in the book.
Mind you, the originator of the recipe obviously has tried the method.
Dennis
Let me just get my slab of butter out of the fridge ready ....................... that's beautiful bread.
Nice one, squirrel.
- Alexandria
- Posts: 2416
- Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:19 pm
- Location: Barcelona
Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
Gil, The Painter,
I did not post a recipe for Cibatta or Chapata ..
If you re - read: I provided the history of the Founder of the internationally acclaimed Italian bread. If I were typing a récipe, I would have given the exact measurements and the instructions !
My Italian Paternal Grandmother bakes Cibatta during Christmas Season and my Mom bakes Cibatta as well when we all get together ..
I do not bake as I work full time and do not have the time to do so ..
Have a nice weekend.
I did not post a recipe for Cibatta or Chapata ..
If you re - read: I provided the history of the Founder of the internationally acclaimed Italian bread. If I were typing a récipe, I would have given the exact measurements and the instructions !
My Italian Paternal Grandmother bakes Cibatta during Christmas Season and my Mom bakes Cibatta as well when we all get together ..
I do not bake as I work full time and do not have the time to do so ..
Have a nice weekend.
Barcelona, soulful & spirited, filled with fine art, amazing architecture, profoundly steeped in culture & history, and it engages all your senses, and food fancies.
- Gillthepainter
- Posts: 3719
- Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:53 am
- Location: near some lakes
Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
Member 461
Not my question, nothing to re read. Amy was asking if you cook your recipes or about their source, not I.
I believe you make it clear you don't.
Which is why Dennis and I ask and answer each other on posts like this.
We particularly like baking bread, as do some others.
Not my question, nothing to re read. Amy was asking if you cook your recipes or about their source, not I.
I believe you make it clear you don't.
Which is why Dennis and I ask and answer each other on posts like this.
We particularly like baking bread, as do some others.
- Alexandria
- Posts: 2416
- Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:19 pm
- Location: Barcelona
Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
Gil,
I have cooked all my recipes over the years, Gil.
These are family recipes ( source always mentioned with an Intro as you are aware ) or recipes given to me by hotels & restaurants we frequent here and on our tours.
I do not bake due to lack of time !
All my best, Have a nice day ..
I have cooked all my recipes over the years, Gil.
These are family recipes ( source always mentioned with an Intro as you are aware ) or recipes given to me by hotels & restaurants we frequent here and on our tours.
I do not bake due to lack of time !
All my best, Have a nice day ..
Barcelona, soulful & spirited, filled with fine art, amazing architecture, profoundly steeped in culture & history, and it engages all your senses, and food fancies.
- Lusciouslush
- Posts: 1735
- Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 10:35 am
Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
Is all I have to add...………………..
Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
Thank you Gil. It’s a shame Member 461 you didn’t answer directly to me but never mind . I think the history of a dish can be interesting but it is more useful in a practical sense , to have a tried and tested recipie posted. .
Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
Sorry Gill, got the butter out but not in time for your lunch. Choice of homemade soup - tomato or veg with a trace of chicke'n lamb (long story)
12 hour overnight ferment, 2.5 hours rising this morning. Divided into two lengths of dough, three pieces because one dropped out of my hands as I moved it from worktop to flat tray. Next time I'll tip the whole dough onto tray and divide it there. Look carefully at the cut pieces and you'll see some bits of raw flour, mixing not easy.
12 hour overnight ferment, 2.5 hours rising this morning. Divided into two lengths of dough, three pieces because one dropped out of my hands as I moved it from worktop to flat tray. Next time I'll tip the whole dough onto tray and divide it there. Look carefully at the cut pieces and you'll see some bits of raw flour, mixing not easy.
- Lusciouslush
- Posts: 1735
- Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 10:35 am
Re: Cibatta / Chapata: Polesana, Verona, Veneto, Italy
Bravo Dennis...….!
I see you use the same mini processor as me - good innit!
I see you use the same mini processor as me - good innit!
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