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New food markets in France

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Re: New food markets in France

Postby Joanbunting » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:39 pm

Our fishmonger displays the blue MCS label on which ever fish he has on sale which merit it. Yes Sue it does quite often come from the Atlantic. We are, in fishy temrs a long way from the Med.

If I do buy farmed fish, I only buy organically farmed,

I did not notice a single blue badge, or, come to that bio on any of the fish on sale in Fresh
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Re: New food markets in France

Postby jeral » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:09 pm

One thing about farmed fish is that it makes it available to those who want to buy it. If everyone rejected it, the seas would soon be, or would already be, overfished and barren, which is why farming was invented in the first place of course.

That said, given the amount of plastic being found in sea food, it's possible that farmed fish might even be healthier for human food in time. It would be good though if farming was free range, not caged or overcrowded etc, and maybe comfort labelling like the meaningless "responsibly sourced" and "sustainable source" ought to tell it like it is, e.g. "from caged fish" like caged chicken/eggs now has to be labelled.

I don't know if it's obligatory to label fish as farmed (if it is) - I suspect so or supermarkets and fishmongers wouldn't.

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Re: New food markets in France

Postby Joanbunting » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:27 pm

I'm slightly puzzled as to how fish farming could be free range.

Fish farms these days, all over the world, cause terrible pollution and do imense damaged to wild fish. Bio/ organic at least indicates that the fish are raised without antibiotics and other chemical to, for instance, prevent sea lice.
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Re: New food markets in France

Postby jeral » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:08 pm

Joanbunting, some farms allow free swimming in pond-like enclosures so have less need for meds and are less susceptible to lice. The grand plan would be to bring all farms (land or sea) up to the best standards they can be to make them enviro-neutral, i.e. at one with nature.

As farming is needed to feed the increasing world population, then fish farm problems need to be first recognised, then addressed. I mean how many shoppers do you know who are aware of farmed sea lice contamination etc? The same applies to land agriculture (killing soil) and animals of course, but so far farmed fish appears to have escaped public scrutiny and outrage.

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Re: New food markets in France

Postby karadekoolaid » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:37 am

jeral wrote:Joanbunting, some farms allow free swimming in pond-like enclosures so have less need for meds and are less susceptible to lice. The grand plan would be to bring all farms (land or sea) up to the best standards they can be to make them enviro-neutral, i.e. at one with nature.

As farming is needed to feed the increasing world population, then fish farm problems need to be first recognised, then addressed. I mean how many shoppers do you know who are aware of farmed sea lice contamination etc? The same applies to land agriculture (killing soil) and animals of course, but so far farmed fish appears to have escaped public scrutiny and outrage.


A pond-like enclosure is never going to be the same as the sea - or an ocean. Whether they`re fed antibiotics or not, an enclosed space for fish is the equivalent of sticking chickens in a cage. IMHO, there`s no way to "farm" fish in a natural environment. Any enclosure is a way of restricting the fish´s natural habitat.
Having said that, I tend to agree that "fish farming" could well resolve ( and probably already is resolving) some current supply and demand. Over fishing in the oceans is a serious problem, because there´s no doubt at all that a lot of the catch is eventually wasted.

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Re: New food markets in France

Postby Badger's Mate » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:30 am

However, a pond-like enclosure does allow for separation of the fish from the surroundings, and can therefore prevent eutrophication and disease transmission if the effluent is treated properly. Both of these are issues with salmon cages in lochs, for example.

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Re: New food markets in France

Postby jeral » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:21 pm

I'm happy to accept that fish will never be happy howsoever unnaturally enclosed, but there's no doubt that some enclosures e.g. cages, overcrowding and bad cleaning or water filtration, are reportedly far worse than others for the fish (so us) and sea contamination.

So, if the worst practices are banned the good ones will become better to preserve their superior differential, at least until a sufficiently uncontroversial mediocre level is reached for the lower end mass production ones, i.e. the differential can remain static. Thus, only "better than it was", but still better. Antibiotics becoming ineffective for humans could be the biggest driver soon.

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Re: New food markets in France

Postby Alexandria » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:07 pm

Sue,

Yes, fish do swim in schools and migrate seasonally depending on the species, and so the variety could vary as well ..
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Re: New food markets in France

Postby Stokey Sue » Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:29 pm

One of the arguments for farming the large flat fish such as turbot is that they are sessile once past the baby size - in other words they won’t bother to swim after food unless they have to, they are quite happy to sit still and have it bought to them. I doubt you can assume all fish need the same treatment.

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Re: New food markets in France

Postby Badger's Mate » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:22 pm

Yes, the example of pond-like fish farming I was thinking of was Gigha Halibut :yum

It must help that big flatfish are a high value product.

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Re: New food markets in France

Postby Joanbunting » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:50 pm

Went again this morning to see if my thoughts would be as negative as last week and also because it is the only place where I knew I could get some exotics for the weekend - oo er missus!

I am still not wildly impressed but I did find that they havethe option of paper bags with transparent windows and when I asked at the checkout they confirmed that I can reuse them next shop.

But the veal is not rose - ie it is crate raised - absolute no no. Only half the chicken is free -range. Every single piece of cheese in the shop is plastic wrapped. But they do have fresh tamarinds :limbobanana :limbobanana

So I think my shopping there will be very very selective and i shall continue to demand on every visit why so little of their packaging is recyclable. I was told the first time it was. As it happens the store is directly opposite the recycling depot. So I invited the young man to come with me over the raod to see if he could get his packaging accepted. He declined.
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Re: New food markets in France

Postby Stokey Sue » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:08 pm

Joan crate raised veal is illegal in the EU, and has been since 2007 (I just checked again)

But at least it’s another source of certain supplies

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Re: New food markets in France

Postby Joanbunting » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:25 pm

The veal was certainlly not "raised under it's mother" as they say here. That's the only sort we will eat.
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Re: New food markets in France

Postby strictlysalsaclare » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:00 pm

Hmm, they must have sourced the veal from outside the EU then :(

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Re: New food markets in France

Postby Joanbunting » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:55 pm

Don't think so Claire. imported and home raised veal can still be raised without their mums in pens , some better than others, ie indoors. The veal we eat is riased outside alongside their mums, and suckle for the appropriate time.
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Re: New food markets in France

Postby Stokey Sue » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:36 am

strictlysalsaclare wrote:Hmm, they must have sourced the veal from outside the EU then :(

Importing crate veal also illegal though obviously harder to check up on
It’s a complete ban

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